I’d asked Hugo, “Is there any evidence that I could give you that would be acceptable to you as credible evidence for the existence of Creator God?”
Because he has no intention of answering that question honestly - i.e. “No,” he instead obfuscates with atheist-speak,
“I don’t know how you describe Creator God,” and
“We can’t talk about the singularity because (insert any dumb comment that is typical for atheists)."
Because it is God who makes Himself known to those of His choosing, any single point of evidence is enough to make the other pieces of the puzzle begin to fall into place. That’s what happens for those to whom He’s revealed Himself.
On the other hand, to those who are on their way to hell, evidence or logical descriptions of God amounting to a trillion times what they have available to them will not be enough to convince them of the existence of God. Unless God opens their eyes to see, and unstops their ears so they can hear, the presentation of evidence and endless descriptions of Creator God will be a waste of time. 1st Corinthians 2:14
That’s why Jesus said to the man in hell, who begged Jesus to go and warn this man’s brothers of the reality of hell, “You and your brothers had the Bible telling of My existence. If they don’t believe the Bible, even when I rise from the dead it won’t be enough to convince them.”
Jesus is saying that the amount of evidence isn’t the problem. The problem is the state of one’s soul. God has given us just enough evidence of His existence so that those who are being called to salvation will find Him. And, He has given just enough evidence of His existence that those who are on their way to eternal damnation will not find Him accidentally.
Nevertheless, it is a presentation of evidence and the presentation of the Gospel message that God uses to awaken those who are destined to humble themselves and seek forgiveness for their sins. To that end, and not knowing who is listening in, I must continue to present the good news of Jesus’ offer of salvation.
Jesus came to earth to save sinners.
He did that for you.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
I’d asked Hugo, "Is there any evidence that I could give you that would be acceptable to you as credible evidence for the existence of Creator God?"
ReplyDeleteThe short answer was YES; and I was clear on that.
Yet you prefer to lie and wrote:
Because he has no intention of answering that question honestly - i.e. “No,” he instead obfuscates with atheist-speak,
I am not dishonest. I sincerely mean YES and I sincerely don't know how you would describe Creator God in a way that you can prove He exists without starting by assuming He exists, which is what I have ALWAYS see you do.
You even admitted it yourself recently when you said that no single path lead from disbelief to belief, but that all of them make sense once you believe. It was not these exact words but that's I had understood. Feel free to correct me and show me a base point where we both agree, and then we could build an evidence-base argumentation from there...
But no, I know you won't, because you're the one who is avoiding the topic of blind faith that you must have to believe in all these stories; your emotional reactions you got after starting to believe is sufficient for you as a basis for your faith. You don't see it as "blind faith" because it's based on this experience, but it is blind faith for any external observer...
“We can’t talk about the singularity because (insert any dumb comment that is typical for atheists)."
ReplyDeleteAfter lying you now transform a genuine question into an insult...
Let me try to explain why I said your sentence was invalid.
You had written:
"If matter and energy did not exist in ANY form until the singularity..."
You cannot say 'did not exist until the singularity' when we agree that the singularity represents the start of time. If there was no time, then the action of existing, a time-related action, was not possible.
Now your response to that could be to point out that it thus means that I must believe nothing existed, and then everything came out of nothing. You love to bash this idea... but it is not the case, I don't support this view. Why? Because the singularity does not, and never, existed. It's a mathematical impossibility, a place where equations break down. Nothing more...
Hence why I asked to clarify what you meant by 'until the singularity'...
Do we disagree on the definition of the singularity? Is it not the start of time for you?
If we agree that it is the start of time; how can you discuss of anything happening 'before' when 'before' is meaningless?
Because it is God who makes Himself known to those of His choosing...
ReplyDeleteThe rest of this post assumes God exists, Jesus was His son, and Himself at the same time. Before you can justify these claims, I am completely oblivious to anything descending from that. No bad intentions, no purposely sinning, etc... just genuine attempts at making sense of this life we have with respect to the observations we can make.
"I sincerely don't know how you would describe Creator God in a way that you can prove He exists without starting by assuming He exists, which is what I have ALWAYS see you do."
ReplyDeleteAll it takes is an open mind. Have you even read my post, “Why I’m Not An Atheist”? THAT is the evidence that, if a person is sincerely willing to consider the existence of God, He will use to draw a person to Himself. If however, someone is like you or other atheists, it will just all remain something you are forced to ignore.
The same is true for the existence of Jesus. There is more than enough "normal" historical evidence for His existence. However if one is already committed to a material universe s/he will only notice radical statements about Him never existing - Just like those who don't want to believe that the holocaust was real - they only consider one type of claim.
=====
“you must have to believe in all these stories;”
What stories?
=====
“You cannot say 'did not exist until the singularity' when we agree that the singularity represents the start of time. If there was no time, then the action of existing, a time-related action, was not possible.”
But you know EXACTLY what I’m talking about. Of course we can’t talk intelligibly about eternity, or outside of time because we’re time bound people, but you know what I mean. The physical, the material is bound by time - the Spiritual, the Immaterial is not.
Just like you know exactly what attributes and characteristics we’re talking about when talking about the God of Christianity. Yet you pretend to not know. Just who do you think you're fooling?
=====
“If we agree that it is the start of time;”
The singularity was the start of time, matter, energy and the laws of physics that govern matter and energy. Until then, or before then (again you know exactly what I mean) only the Immaterial existed and it existed for eternity or outside of time.
Either matter is eternal - NOT
Or the Cause of matter is eternal
Of course a committed materialist MUST completely ignore Occams's Razor and say, "Well there might be other reasons that we just haven't thought of.
=====
“I am completely oblivious to anything descending from that”
And that is the point of this post. The thing is, many, many people reject God for decades and all of a sudden He opens their eyes to see what has been there all along. I can’t know if this is the case for you and others like you - so I keep doing what I’m doing.
so I keep doing what I’m doing
ReplyDeleteLying and mischaracterizing the opinions of people you disagree with? And you think this will somehow bring people closer to God?
Ooo good one. You and Hugo might think you’re the exceptions but the stuff I write about have come directly from the mouths of atheists.
ReplyDeleteGod can use anyone and anything to bring them to Jesus. He can even use the Bible to drive atheists further and further down the path that they’re on.
All it takes is an open mind. Have you even read my post, “Why I’m Not An Atheist”? THAT is the evidence that, if a person is sincerely willing to consider the existence of God, He will use to draw a person to Himself. If however, someone is like you or other atheists, it will just all remain something you are forced to ignore.
ReplyDeleteOf course I read that; you have been using the same post for at least 2 years :-)
To remind me of its content, I did go read previous versions and I like the fact that you updated some aspects of your reasoning. It does show that you try to improve it.
However, as WEM just pointed out, you also keep misrepresenting what others tell you. That's why I tried a few times (and will in a future comment) to discuss the origin of the universe issue with simple sentences and simple principles that we could agree on first. We never got very far...
The same is true for the existence of Jesus. There is more than enough "normal" historical evidence for His existence. However if one is already committed to a material universe s/he will only notice radical statements about Him never existing - Just like those who don't want to believe that the holocaust was real - they only consider one type of claim.
Lying and insulting... again...
You cannot compare Holocaust deniers, who deny an event that happened less than a 100 years ago, documents by actual photographs, just to name that, with the existence of a man who supposedly performed tons of miracles 2,000 years ago and who was ignored by the people who would have lived at the same time, while they did document the Christian Religion that was coming out.
But what's even more important is that you misrepresent the position: Nobody actually cares about Jesus being a real person or not when it comes to being a Christian or not!
Every non-Christian I ever heard speaking about Jesus, even the ones who claim he might have not existed at all, have no problem assuming that he lived to explain why they don't believe he was a god.
... you know exactly what attributes and characteristics we’re talking about when talking about the God of Christianity. Yet you pretend to not know. Just who do you think you're fooling?
Insulting my integrity again after I insisted I won't fool you anymore... So, no, I would not be able to list the attributes of the God you personally believe in.
@Whateverman
ReplyDeleteI failed miserably at not writing on religious blog anymore, didn't I? ;-)
@Thesauros, concerning the origin of the universe, ONLY
ReplyDeleteI try to split the comments because this topic is interesting but always tossed around and melted with others...
Just one question: do you consider that immaterial implies not bound by time?