Rod Bell and satan

The more famous “Red Letter Christians” making the Christian News seem to have one thing in common. And it's not good. I'll use Rob Bell as my example but they all share a similar outlook – with satan -

satan speaks three times:

. Did God really say?

. You will not surely die

. You will be like God

Rob Bell et al. speak three times:

. Did God really say?

. You will not surely die

. You will be with God 

Seeking to Please

Polite is good – right? 

Rude is bad – yes? 

People like Rob Bell know how to make sinners feel good – no doubt. For even if you have to go to hell – if it exists at all – it won't be for long.

That's what the Christian Leader Rob Bell says.

In fact, your time in hell will be just long enough to make you change your mind. It'll be just long enough for you to decide that when you said, “I'd rather stand in hell, than kneel in heaven,” you spoke in haste.

I wonder how many people he's convinced.

It's strange how we Christians will talk among ourselves about being saved by God. We were lost but Jesus chose us for salvation. And we'll shudder at verses like Romans 9:23 and think, “It could have been me.” But when we stand with non believers, it's like God's love will secure the salvation of everyone.

No rocking the boat please.

The desire to have the praise of people is a powerful thing.

The approval of God? Mmm not so much. Apparently.

We'll acknowledge among ourselves how great a gift is the gift of Grace. But let us get among the heathen and their attempts to describe their goodness and worthiness, and it's all head nodding and hmmm, maybe.

We know, in like company, that it's the Holy Spirit Who guides, counsels, comforts and corrects. But you don't hear so much about the greatest gift to our lives when we're out and about.

Sad.

How To Know You Were Never Saved

I suppose you could just ask John Loftus or Bart Erhman, or soon enough, Rob Bell. Ask them what they were thinking as they read the Bible. Or, for example, ask John what event led to him leaving the ministry.

Or you could read 1^st and 2^nd John.

“So we are lying if we say we have fellowship with God but go on living in spiritual darkness; we are not practising the truth. If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that His word has no place in our hearts. If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.”

Or simply pay attention to the reality that is your life. For example:

Have you lost sight of the gospel in your personal life?

Do you sense a growing disconnect between your private and public life?

Is your day no longer driven by a sense of worship?

Do you feel misunderstood by Christians?

Do Christians seem to cringe at your thoughts, words and behaviours?

Do you find yourself looking for life in places where you once said it couldn't be found?

Are you saying to yourself that following Jesus is no longer a privilege and a joy but is now a burden?

Those who have a healed and forgiven relationship with Jesus will follow a steady road of progress, regardless of bumps and hurdles. Your relationship with God may be hot at times and cold at times but it will never be lukewarm. Those who simply had faith in faith will slowly but surely drift away.

As John said, “Those who leave us were never with us.”

Sad but true.

Emergent Atheists

First of all, I’d like to say to any discouraged atheist leaders, if you fear that your message isn’t getting through, cheer up! Leaders in the Emergent Church have got it loud and clear and they’re passing it on (and getting paid for it, no less) to 100's of thousands of eager listeners.

A couple years ago an atheist expressed surprise that I had some favourable thoughts regarding the emergent church. I’ve been reading here and there over the years about the emergent church and some of what I read is encouraging; emphasising that which has perhaps been downplayed too much in some evangelical circles. Other parts are down right humorous as emergent leaders try to sound, well, very much like modern or should I say, post-modern atheists.

For example, for both emergents and atheists:
. Each group is made up of those who have been hurt, and the many more who wish they had been hurt by a mainline church.

. For both, teaching or saying something as though its a fact and then saying, "I might be wrong," is a sign of humility.

. The Bible is not authoritative for daily living.

. Both want to throw off the shackles of the Church; or more importantly both feel the Church as a shackle.

. God’s Wrath and Judgement need not concern us.

. God’s Wrath poured out on sinners would be an injustice and prove that He is not a God of love. “[Evangelicals teach] God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life, and if you don’t love God back and cooperate with God’s plans in exactly the prescribed way, God will torture you with unimaginable abuse, forever,” MacLaren. This quote is so close to what you can find on numerous atheist blogs that either atheists have quoted Maclaren or he is quoting atheists.

. Both say that original goodness, not original sin is our natural state. Total depravity is “biblically questionable, and profoundly unhelpful.”

. Because of the last point, both downplay the importance of the Christian God and salvation. After all, the journey is more important than the destination.

. Christianity, as traditionally presented is exclusive, us / them, in / out and it’s not good.

. Truth probably does not exist, at least not in a form that humans can discover.

. Tolerance has come to mean that someone’s behaviour / lifestyle may be offensive or wrong but - whatever.

. I don’t need God / salvation in order to be a good person.

. We’re going to make the path of acceptance so wide that you can’t even see the ditch on either side. We’re going to make the gate of acceptance so wide that you can’t even see the doorposts.

. Both glorify living in a perpetual state of doubt.

. Both agree that Jesus, if he existed, was a good man

. Both agree that the best we can do is copy Jesus’ behaviours

. Both agree that the most important point of life is to live right and love others

. Post-modern thinking only applies to the Christian religion. The rest of life goes around the course driven by logic.

. Over the years I’ve labelled many, many people as functional atheists. These are people who live as though God doesn’t exist. Emergent leaders live as though God does not and perhaps cannot reveal His nature and character to us and therefore they worship, or journey toward a figment of their imagination.

Oh, and the funny parts? In the excellent book, “Why We’re Not Emergent” Kevin DeYoung and Ted Kluck say, “aren’t some of the new names [used by emergent leaders] going to be obstacles to faith more than invitations? Won’t many seekers find that we are trying a bit too hard when we have:

. “Fusion Services” instead of worship singing

. “Hire Experience Designers” instead of Pastors

. Call our Church buildings “Incubators for kingdom-inspired, creativity, and social action.”

. And at what point does sitting on the floor talking about the Bible, while calling it “an impromptu but extended tete-a-tete between church members that focuses on the intensity of interpersonal communication” sound more profound than it really is? p.154-155
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My guess is that after Rob Bell and Peter Rollins et al. have sold as many books, and taken in as many offering plates that they can manage, they’ll join the ranks of John Loftus and Bart Erhman. As Rollins states, “[Emergents] remain dubious concerning what we believe about God, to the point that we disbelieve the God we also believe in, “holding atheism and theism together in the same cradle of faith”
Rollins “How (not) To Speak To God

If, in a decade or two giving up on a thirst for a healed and forgiven relationship with Creator God is true for the leaders of the Emergent Church - what of their followers?

My Turn

So I got sucked in and went out a bought Rob Bell’s book. And I have to say, I’m pretty disappointed.

Not a good buy.

Luckily on Kindle it's only nine bucks so . . .
I suppose if I agreed with him I might feel differently - maybe, but in all honesty? It was pretty poorly written.

From a theological perspective is was down right pathetic.

I mean - come on! The guy is a Pastor. He should and could know better. Here’s what I’m talking about:

“If your God will punish people for all of eternity for sins committed in a few short years . . .”

That is NOT why people are spending eternity in hell. If you go to hell, it’s because you have rejected the only means of avoiding hell. If you go to hell, it is because you have not turned from your rebellion against your Creator. Rob Bell knows what the Bible teaches on the subject but chooses to ignore Its words. In my way of thinking, that is an egregious way for a christian Pastor to act.
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“If there was an actual human dad who was that volatile, we would contract child protection services immediately. If God can switch gears like that, switch entire modes of being that quickly, that raises a thousand questions about whether a being like this could ever be trusted, let alone be good. Loving one moment, vicious the next. Kind and compassionate, only to become cruel and relentless in the blink of an eye.”

Again, Rob Bell knows that heaven, hell, justification, condemnation - all these things were put in place before the universe was ever brought into existence. While we humans do not comprehend “eternity” or “outside of time, even 14.5 billion years is hardly “switching gears.” No one reading Rob Bell’s book or even the Bible can hardly claim to be taken by surprise by God’s plan for redemption. It’s atheists who accuse God of acting in a capricious and arbitrary manner, not those who actually know Creator God.

For what it's worth, I don't think Rob Bell even touches the issue of justice in this book.
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“What [Jesus] doesn’t say is how, or when, or in what manner the mechanism functions that gets people to God through him. He doesn’t even state that those coming to the Father through Him will even know that they are coming exclusively through Him.

Are you freakin kidding me?

Mark 16:16 - Jesus said, “Those who believe and are baptized will be saved but those who refuse to believe will be condemned.”

John 1:12,13 Jesus said, “Unless you are born again, you can never get into the kingdom of heaven.” There is no eternal doom awaiting those who trust Him to save them. But those who don’t trust Him have already been tried and condemned for not believing in the only Son of God.

John 5:24 - Jesus said, “I say emphatically that anyone who listens to My message and believes in God who sent me has eternal life and will NEVER be damned for his sins. He has crossed from death into life.”

John 8:24 - Jesus said, “For unless you believe that I am the Son of God, the Messiah, you will die in your sins.”

Romans 3:27,28 - Our acquittal is not based on our good deeds, it is based on what Christ has done and our faith in Him. So it is we are saved, by faith in Christ and not by the good things we do.

Romans 9:32 - Because they were trying to be saved by keeping the law and being good instead of by depending on faith, they have stumbled over that great stumbling stone, Jesus.

Galatians 2:19 - It was through reading the Scriptures that I came to realize that I could never find God’s favour by trying and failing to obey the law. I came to realize that acceptance with God comes by believing in Christ.

1st Thessalonians 1:8,9 - The Lord Jesus will bring judgement on those who do not wish to know God and those who reject His plan to save them through our Lord Jesus Christ. They will be punished in everlasting hell, forever separated from the Lord, never to see the glory of His power.

These verses literally scream for our attention. The basis for what they say is this. God is completely Holy. Nothing less than complete Holiness can come into His presence. Jesus taught that we are separated from His Holiness by our sinful nature, and neither religion, nor a moral life, nor some man-made concept of spirituality can fix that. In other words, we can never be ‘good enough’ to be good enough for heaven (Romans 3:22,23).

What kind of a Pastor would tell millions of people that we can’t know how to be saved, when the Bible so clearly says that we can know?
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“Jesus responds to almost every question he’s asked with . . . a question. “What do you think? How do you read it?” He asks again and again and again.

Yes, Rob, just like you, Jesus asked questions. The big difference between Jesus and you is that Jesus left no room for ambiguity. Jesus did not come to create confusion. Jesus did nothing to cloud the issue or leave it to chance that those who were supposed to “get it” couldn’t or wouldn’t get it. Jesus, unlike Mr. Bell, did not try to sound clever by asking obscure questions.

When people answered His questions correctly, Jesus told them so.
When they answered wrong, He told them so.

“I have not lost any that You have given Me.”
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“Many people find Jesus compelling, but don’t follow him, because of the parts about “hell and torment and all that.”

This I think is what I found so profoundly sad about this book. It's written by a man who so desperately wants people to like Jesus that he’ll even lie about Jesus to win people over. He’ll tell them anything, even something that isn’t true if only he can get them to want to be Jesus' friend.

Jesus didn’t care about people liking Him. He cared that they spent eternity in heaven. Jesus wasn’t trying to win Israeli Idol. He came here on a rescue mission.

So desperately does Mr. Bell want people to like Jesus, and like coming to his church to hear about his version of Jesus that Rob mocks the idea that “only a few get in.” In order to get people to like Jesus, Rob Bell ignores the very words of Jesus, “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Matthew 7:12-14.

Rob Bell wants people to accept Jesus, but if Jesus teaches that only a few will find the Way, and Rob Bell teaches people to just ignore Jesus' teaching if they don’t find it palatable, is he really helping people to follow Jesus? Is he really helping people to find salvation according to what Jesus taught?
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In exactly the same fashion as thousands of enemies of the cross before him, Rob Bell asks the question, “Could God say to someone truly humbled, broken, and desperate for reconciliation, “Sorry, too late”? Many have refused to accept the scenario in which somebody is pounding on the door, apologizing, repenting, and asking God to be let in, only to hear God say through the keyhole: “Door’s locked. Sorry. If you had been here earlier, I could have done something. But now, it’s too late.”

Oh, so now salvation is a popularity contest. Many don’t like this scenario - I see. Well, to make sure that we clearly understand what it’s going to be like, Jesus told this parable. Again, a parable that Bell ignores.

“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

“At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’ “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’ “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’ “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’ “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’ “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
Matthew 25: 1-13

Now I ask, who is more foolish?
. The people in the parable who didn’t plan for the end?
. Mr. Bell for telling people to behave like the fools in the Jesus’ account?
. Or those who do what Mr. Bell says to do, and ignore Jesus’ warning?
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“And then there are others who insist that there must be some kind of “second chance” for those who don’t believe in Jesus in this lifetime.”

Yes, there are some. Like Rob Bell. These are the same people who ignore the pointed statement,
“People are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” Hebrews 9:27
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Don’t get me wrong. The book does contain a few good points. Unfortunately none of those good points have anything to do with heaven, hell and the fate of every person who ever lived.

A Loophole For Our Time

Have you noticed how hard it is to forgive? Have you noticed how hard it is to love your enemy, or even to love the person you're married to? Not to worry. There a way around it. There’s a loophole created just for you.

It’s called tolerance.

Tolerance isn’t love.

And it certainly isn’t forgiveness.

Tolerance is better than both love and forgiveness because unlike either of these, tolerance doesn’t cost you anything. At least not very much.

Tolerance says, “Go ahead. Do your own thing and I’ll just look the other way.”

Of course tolerance is better than harming you or discriminating against you in some way, but it’s most definitely not love.

Love takes the time and effort to get to know you, even as I disagree with what you’re doing.
Love causes me to seek what’s best for you even while I disagree with your lifestyle or belief system.

It was love that caused your Creator and mine to come to earth and live in the very filth and sin for which His own wrath would cause Him to pay His own penalty.

As Rob Bell has so famously said, “Love Wins!”

Rob Bell Unsure About Gandhi?

I like Rob Bell. He’s a cool Preacher, savvy marketer, pretty decent author. I think he’s also theologically dangerous. Giving people what they like is not always better than giving people what they need. For example, Rob Bell says, (my paraphrase) “I’m not sure whether Gandhi is in heaven or hell. Jesus said there would be lots of surprises regarding the issue of who is and who is not in heaven.” One of Bell’s fans says she likes that he doesn’t just spoon feed the standard Christian answers. Bell says he likes people to think for themselves.

Fair enough. I too don’t know whether Gandhi is in heaven or hell. But shouldn’t both Rob and I explain why we aren’t sure? For me, and as I understand the Bible it must be the same for Mr. Bell, the answer is that we simply don’t know beyond doubt what relationship Mohandus Karamachand Gandhi had with Jesus before the Hindu leader died.

Mark 16:16 - Jesus said, “Those who believe and are baptized will be saved but those who refuse to believe will be condemned.”

John 1:12,13 Jesus said, “Unless you are born again, you can never get into the kingdom of heaven.” There is no eternal doom awaiting those who trust Him to save them. But those who don’t trust Him have already been tried and condemned for not believing in the only Son of God.

John 5:24 - Jesus said, “I say emphatically that anyone who listens to My message and believes in God who sent me has eternal life and will NEVER be damned for his sins. He has crossed from death into life.”

John 8:24 - Jesus said, “For unless you believe that I am the Son of God, the Messiah, you will die in your sins.”

Romans 3:27,28 - Our acquittal is not based on our good deeds, it is based on what Christ has done and our faith in Him. So it is we are saved, by faith in Christ and not by the good things we do.

If what Jesus said is true, then Mahatma had to make some changes in his relationship with Jesus or he will not be in heaven.

“Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.”
John 3:18,36

It is what it is! And unless Gandhi had a deathbed conversion, then according to Jesus, and I hope according to Rob Bell, Gandhi is not and can not be anything but eternally separated from his Creator.

To make their point, atheists often resort to the example of a murderer who accepts Jesus’ offer of salvation and Mahatma Gandhi who did many good things but did not convert to Christianity. Both atheists and I would agree that the murderer has done wrong by society. Gandhi while making life difficult for a few people (eg. his wife from his adulteries and lies) did enormous good for many, many others. What atheists ignore or cannot comprehend, what they’re unwilling or unable to accept is that both the murderer and Gandhi have committed grievous offenses against Creator God. That is why the one’s forgiveness for his crimes against God and the other’s refusal to admit a need for forgiveness is what allows the murderer to go to heaven while Gandhi goes to hell. It’s called a spiritual reality.

Of course, the idea that we’re all on the same road to God or that there are many paths to God is ludicrous. Jesus said, “If you do not believe that I Am who I say I Am, you will die in your sins.” The answer to the question, “Was He right?” is not in the same category of questions like, “What is the most pleasing thing in life?” or “How would you describe the perfect holiday?” If there is a Creator God, then the answer to the question of His existence is of the same order as the answer to the question, What is 2 + 2? The answer will either be right or it will be wrong. Period!

. If God has revealed Himself to us, as Jesus said that He has, and
. If God has provided a path of belief that is intended to lead us to Him, again as Jesus said that He has, and
. If our very salvation depends on us following the path that has been laid out for us by Creator God, as Jesus said that it does,
. Then other paths or alternate paths can only lead us away from Creator God, and not to Creator God.

To know what Jesus taught and to then deliberately choose to follow Buddhism or Native Religion or Hinduism or anything else instead cannot and will not place you on the same path to God as Jesus directed.

As C. S. Lewis pointed out, there may be many wrong answers to any given mathematical problem. And some of the wrong answers will be much closer to the right answer than some of the others (2 + 2 = 3.95) But there will always and only be one correct answer. Everything else will always and only be a wrong answer. Likewise, there are several thousand answers to the questions, What is God like? and How can we know Him? Some of those answers will be closer to correct than others in their understanding of Creator God. However, one thing is certain, there is only one right answer to both 2 + 2 = , and Is Jesus the Way, the Truth and the Life? And not just any old path will lead you to either answer.

A decision must be made, and according to Jesus there are eternal consequences to how we answer His question of “Who do you say that I Am?”

Jesus may be many things to many people but one thing He isn’t. Jesus is not ‘sort of important.’ If He is correct in what He taught, then what you do with Jesus is the most important decision that you will ever make. So, are you going to believe what Jesus says about Himself and salvation, or are you going to believe what some atheist says about Jesus and salvation? Either Jesus is correct about Himself or somebody like Hugo is correct. It can’t be both.

Regarding the means of salvation and how it applies to Gandhi as well as to us, Jesus is saying something like, “I’ve already bought the concert tickets for you but you have to go and pick up the tickets by three o’clock on the day of the concert. If you don’t pick them up and if you just tell the attendant at the door, “I’m a really good person, so let me in,” it won’t work.” Sounds simple doesn’t it? Makes sense? Not to atheists. In fact, it makes them furious. Explaining Jesus’ plan of salvation to one atheist, a single mother of two, caused her to call me a “Fuckwitted Fundy.”

So, as simply as I can make it, the scenario goes like this:

The murderer has wronged society in a way that requires punishment

Gandhi has not wronged society in a way that requires punishment

The murderer has wronged God

Gandhi has wronged God

Society demands justice of the murderer

Society demands nothing of Gandhi because he tries to do good things

God demands justice of the murderer whose heart is not right toward God

God demands justice of Mahatma Gandhi whose heart is not right toward God

Justice is served for the crime against society on the murderer (death or imprisonment)

No justice is demanded by society for Gandhi

Justice is served for crimes against God on behalf of the murderer by Jesus

Justice is served for crimes against God on behalf of Gandhi by Jesus

This undeserved payment by Jesus is accepted by the murderer.

This undeserved payment by Jesus is rejected by Gandhi

This undeserved Grace from Jesus is accepted by the murderer.

This undeserved Grace from Jesus is rejected by Gandhi

Paradise is given by Jesus to the murderer

Jesus is not able to give paradise to Gandhi because he has rejected the offer.

It’s a Spiritual Reality.

Grace is a concept the is incomprehensible to all atheists, to Mahatma Gandhi and all other non Christian religious people.

In Ezekiel, Jesus is quoted as saying, “I don’t take any delight in the death of the wicked. I want the wicked to change their ways so that they can live! You don’t need to go to hell. Rather than tantrum like a frustrated child, do what it takes and you will never need to experience eternal separation from Me.” Ezekiel 33:11.