Store up for yourselves treasures in Heaven
where moth and rust cannot destroy and thieves cannot break in and steal

Sunday, October 2, 2011

A Man of Few Words

While He lived on earth, one of Jesus’ closest friends was a very young man who we know simply as John. A dedicated follower and disciple of Jesus, as well as an eyewitness to the ministry of Jesus, John was so impressed with God in Christ, or as he describes, “The Word” that he’s certain he doesn’t need to offer very much evidence “so that you might also believe.”

Jesus ministry lasted ~ 1,000 days give or take. Out of that 1,000 days, John’s account covers no more than twenty days. When I think of all the evidence that atheists reject, a priori reject no less, it amazes me how John could say, “I wrote these things so that you might also believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” Of course when you’ve been right there, in the midst of it all. When you’ve been a disciple of the Rabbi for a really intense three years (as Plato said, “A disciple is a vessel so tightly sealed that not one drop of your leader’s teaching leaks out”), it would be hard for John to comprehend how someone WOULDN'T believe what he’s experienced.

I’ve written pages and pages and pages of information. I’ve described it backwards and forwards. I’ve given citations and citations regarding citations. All in an attempt to show atheists that Jesus is not just a historical figure, but His life, death and resurrection are detailed by numerous extra Biblical writers. All to no avail. There is no evidence great enough or clear enough to convince those determined to deny the existence of God. Like those who wish to deny the holocaust, no amount of evidence, nor the quality of the evidence is enough to convince those who wish to deny Jesus. And yet, John, in all seriousness presents seven signs to “prove” that Jesus was and is Creator God. That’s all. Seven signs over twenty days that John believes should be enough to show the reader that Jesus was exactly who He said He was, God in human form.

1) John says Jesus’ first sign was performed in the town of Cana. This is where Jesus turned water into wine. He made the wine in twenty gallon stone containers that were made to hold ceremonial water. I’m sure the provocation was not lost on the Pharisees.

2) Next, John tells about Jesus healing an official’s son. A Roman officer’s son! Again, healing the enemy seems deliberately geared to alienate and offend.

3) Pushing the social envelope further, Jesus heals an invalid - on the Sabbath. It’s like Jesus was trolling for Pharisees.

4) Next, Jesus feeds over 12,000 men, women and children with a little bit of bread and a couple fish. In contrast to assuaging physical hunger, Jesus describes Himself “the bread of life” and states that those who come to Him for spiritual nourishment will never hunger again.

5) Everyone knows about Jesus walking on the water. It seems that John especially wanted to point out that, as only Creator God could, He who created matter out of nothing demonstrated power over the physics of matter. In fact, as many theologians have pointed out, the miracles, especially the healing miracles were not a case of Jesus messing with the norm, but instead He was bringing “reality” back to what was the norm before sin was allowed to enter into space and time.

6) Then, a man born blind from birth is healed, again on the Sabbath. By this time in His ministry Jesus is livid at the lack of compassion that religious leaders of His day, like many religious people of our day display. The desire of people to punish rather than heal is very, very disturbing to Jesus.

7) Finally, Jesus raises Lazarus after he’d been in the grave for four days. Again, He demonstrates not just power over the laws of physics as we understand them, now the One who creates, gives and sustains life demonstrates power over death itself.

Seven signs. That’s all. Seven signs that were enough for the officials of the time to plot to kill not just Jesus but Lazarus as well. None of the leaders were accusing Jesus of being a fraud, a shyster, a clever magician. They were furious because Jesus’ claims to be God were backed up with irrefutable proof by doing things that only the Creator of matter / energy, space, time and life itself could do. Jesus was stealing their thunder and they wanted Him gone baby gone. We have seven signs that John says should be enough to prove to us that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God - Jesus the Christ.

And if that isn’t enough, then comes Jesus' resurrection from the dead. An empty tomb that John himself inspected. Repeated post burial encounters with the risen Jesus are also described by John. He ate with Jesus, walked and talked and was taught by Jesus for about 50 days after His resurrection. So convinced were the disciples that they did a 180 from being hopeless cowards hiding behind locked doors to becoming powerful and almost fearless witnesses. So powerful and compelling was the evidence of the risen Jesus that the Christian Church was born out of Jesus’ resurrection. There is no other reason for these devout Jews to leave the religion of their family and of their community and sacrifice their lives to testify to the resurrection other than the truth of that event.

And then John writes, “Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of His disciples which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.” John 20:30.

No amount of evidence is enough for atheists. They mock the people of Jesus’ day as being too primitive to know whether or not a virgin could become pregnant. A young girl, Mary, knew it was not naturally possible but atheists discount what women say. Atheists think the people were too ignorant to know that diseases don’t disappear at someone’s command or that limbs crippled from birth couldn’t be made to heal in an instant. Atheists derisively call these people “stone-age goat herders.” Atheists think that those people were so gullible that it was easy to trick them into believing that people can rise from the dead. Not one of the disciples believed it without empirical evidence. Yet atheists ignore that historical evidence. In fact, so compelling is the historical evidence that we have that, like others on the fringes of society who simply say, “the holocaust never happened,” atheists are now forced to say, “Jesus never existed.” Sad but true.

No amount of evidence is enough for those committed to atheism.
How much is enough for you?

13 comments:

  1. ...When I think of all the evidence that atheists reject, a priori reject no less...

    Will you ever stop to lie?

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  2. Wow, this entire post is actually a big lie.
    How can you even pretend that there are that many accounts of Jesus' life. I know you keep doing it but I really wonder how you can be more sure than scholars themselves about all this.

    But anyway, you still miss the point and lie about the way others think. You are so dishonest in your search for truth and so dishonest when presenting the position of others, even if you barely do so.

    Pathetic

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  3. Haha, look at I ran into after reading your blog spot... what a good timing. Perhaps it's God's sign!!

    http://www.livescience.com/16319-earliest-christian-inscription-pagan-artifacts.html

    ... and you compare that kind of evidence with the Holocaust, of which we have PICTURES, MOVIES and people still ALIVE, without any occurrence of MAGIC.

    What a joke...

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  4. "that many accounts of Jesus' life"

    That many? How many am I talking about?
    =====
    "I really wonder how you can be more sure than scholars themselves"

    I only quote the scholars, son. And unlike atheists, I don't call some goof from U Tube a scholar.
    ======

    Perhaps it's God's sign!!"

    I think it is. A message made especially for you, Hugo. You'd best be careful.

    My point is, it doesn't matter how much evidence there is or if it is of the highest quality. If an atheist or someone who hates Jews (and often they're one and the same) doesn't want to believe something, well, s/he simply decides to not believe it. It's that simple.

    Is the reality of Jesus becoming a problem? Let's just say He never existed. If it's said often enough, over time people will come to believe it. Problem solved. You've come to believe your own lie. Go atheist!

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  5. That many? How many am I talking about?

    I was not talking only about this post... if you compare Jesus' life to the Holocaust, then you imply that there are many, and in any way, you did mention many times in the past all the accounts you believe are evidence that Jesus did some magic stuff. You're the one who said things like, these people were writing letters to their families and friend, they did not know it was going to be a gospel, etc... as if it made it more reliable.

    I only quote the scholars, son.

    You're the one who is more knowledgable than me on that. So please find me sources that claim that the 4 gospels of the New Testament were not anonymous and that these people actually saw him.

    But this is just for personal information obviously, because I would still reject their claims that they say magic things happening before their own eyes, for the same reason that I don't believe Sita walked on fire.

    So the points I make are simply that we have, as far as I know, only anonymous copies of the 4 gospels and the names were put on them later on. That's what scholars say, no? You seem to claim otherwise. Can you clarify your point of view and support it?

    Or perhaps it's not really important because you believe because of your personal feelings and emotions after all so you don't have to bother if you don't care about the truthfulness of your claims and beliefs...

    And unlike atheists, I don't call some goof from U Tube a scholar.

    Ya, you prefer to do that when it comes to denying science, like the theories of evolution and big bang.

    I think it is. A message made especially for you, Hugo. You'd best be careful.

    Really? Yeah! A magic message from God through a random search on a forum!

    ReplyDelete
  6. My point is, it doesn't matter how much evidence there is or if it is of the highest quality. If an atheist or someone who hates Jews (and often they're one and the same) doesn't want to believe something, well, s/he simply decides to not believe it. It's that simple.

    My point is that you lie, and that comment just confirms it even more.

    I don't reject the evidence because of an a prio position in which Jesus is not God. I reject the fairy tales of the Bibles because they are simply texts written by people who did believe in magic and a bunch of other fairy tales that their ancestors had written. You also fail, again and again, to recognize the fact that I believe them when they say they were sure, just like I believe you when you say you are sure. You still don't get that.

    Is the reality of Jesus becoming a problem? Let's just say He never existed. If it's said often enough, over time people will come to believe it. Problem solved. You've come to believe your own lie. Go atheist!

    No, again, you don't get the point and only expose your own ignorance and bias. I don't care if Jesus existed or not. It does not change anything for me. For you it does and that's why you have to do all this mental gymnastic to come up with rationalization for what is evident: Jesus never performed miracles.

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  7. Today was my mom's birthday. I went with the family for dinner and learned that my sister is pregnant. October 2nd 2011 will thus become one of these dates I will always remember. Such moments are the most wonderful souvenirs we can ever get, and they stick with us for the rest of our lives.

    Since you are twice as old as me, you also have a lot of these memories. You know exactly what I am talking about.

    Unfortunately, we also have other moments that are the exact opposite of that: Fear, Doubts, Nervosity, Shame, and especially physical pain. They are one of these moments that you labelled as 'knowing that you have been wronged', absolutely.

    We know, and we know absolutely when someone does something “wrong” to us. We don’t have to wonder for one second what our community or society thinks about what the person did to us. We KNOW that we were wronged.
    - Thesauros, 2011-01-12
    (Why I’m Not An Atheist)

    This is what being a human being is all about. We have our highs and lows. That's what we experience, in our everyday life. That's the only thing we can know for sure, that we can know without any doubts, absolutely.

    These memories form who you are. That's what your consciousness is all about. Nothing else. It's a memory device with extremely rapid decision and acquisition mechanism. This device lets you experience the real world around you. It's the emergent property of this mechanism that is called consciousness.

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  8. Here's the catch: we know that this device is fallible. We know that this device makes mistakes. People are easily deceived. Illusionists, hypnotists or mentalists for example, know how to exploit these weaknesses for people of all ages.

    Jesus, whether he existed or not, and his followers, that always existed and will always exist, were humans, with their own brain. According to the ancient text, we can see how it's clear that Jesus, or the authors of the story should I say, did believed what the ancient scripture said. This means that they really believed that Adam and Eve were literal people who were created out of thin air, just to name that one little example. They were deceived. Just like any other religious person when it comes to God.

    So what's the point? The point is that you cannot prove God exists by relying only on minds alone. You need evidence from the real world. In other words, books and eye witness accounts are not sufficient by themselves. You need something more.

    Ideas, thought, scientific laws, moral laws, or any other abstract concept that exists in our minds do not necessarily point to a real thing in the real world. Real is not the same as material. Everything that is real is material, but not the other way around. The concept of infinity is not real, but it is a concept, thus it is immaterial, in the common usage of the term. In contrast, in a strict sense, it is a thought spawned by a mind, which is an emergent property of a real thing made of matter and energy. This thing is called a brain.

    And we know a lot about this device too...

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  9. That's pretty much why I don't believe God exists. Sure, if you say that God is outside all of that, that he just oversees this whole human experience thing and that he interacts through our conscience on a spiritual level, then I guess I have to say that you are simply talking about that part of your mind that helps you decide what's good or bad. Everybody has one, but everybody is different.

    What's absolute for us is absolute just for us. Right now, I am thus absolutely sure that nobody ever gave me evidence that God exists. What I am told is that there are books that tell me about people who really believe that they had such evidence. They believed in concepts of eternal bliss, or reincarnation or eternal torment, depending on which person you talk to.

    I will come back in a year, same blog, same spot, to see if you have any evidence that an infinite immaterial God exists; evidence that is not only a book or an idea someone has. I know you won't. So I am curious to see if you will still be a Christian but now honestly declaring that:

    1) Rod does not have real evidence that God exists. He believes because he has faith and the world would not make sense to him without a god in it.
    2) God is imaginary... but still useful.

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  10. God is still useful because God is our good conscience, our inner voice, the little white angel on our shoulder. It told me today that I need to stop writing because it's really just mental masturbation at this point. It also told me that I need to focus on what matters in life... and what is that?

    Let's go back to the start, shall we?

    There is a sad part in the happy moment I mentioned above: my girlfriend was not with me today. I wished she was there and, for some reason, it reminded me of what you wrote recently: "If your girlfriend WISELY decided to not move to SF with you, I understand.". I put an emphasize on the word 'wisely' here because it implies that it would be wise for her to leave me, as if I was some sort of terrible person to be with.

    Obviously it does not mean much because we don't know each other really. But if I am to simply pretend that it's a real genuine comment, it sounds pretty harsh, isn't it? You are basically saying that the person I love the most in my life right now should leave me...

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  11. Thankfully, reality has a different story to tell. My girlfriend was not with me because I am actually the one who is going to move with her over there soon. She really looks forward to my return, and so does her parents since they know I can take care of their little princess! They don't care that I believe in this or that; what matters is that I am doing my best to do what's good for her.

    I know it's nothing supernatural, eternal or spiritual but that's what really matter the most for me right now. My inner voice, God if you want, tells me that I know that there are important things I need to. I need to make sure my future with my princess is safe and happy. Spending time interacting with people like you is not good usage of my time.

    I might not believe that your God exists outside of your mind, but I certainly agree that I should listen to mine now.

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  12. "So what's the point? The point is that you cannot prove God exists by relying only on minds alone. You need evidence from the real world. In other words, books and eye witness accounts are not sufficient by themselves. You need something more.”

    Well, thanks for that information. If I ever meet someone to whom it applies I’ll be sure to let them know there’s this blogger who’s figured out the conscience.

    I guess you're right about what I said re: You being a dangerous person for your gf's well-being. God can bring good out of any situation so . . .

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  13. So what do you think happened, regarding Jesus, Hugo? Some person wrote a bunch of fake manuscripts about some fake person. A few people believed the lies that this person wrote. They in turn convinced other people to believe the lie that this phantom could change the worst humans on earth and the world, the very course of history was changed because of it? That's some author. Too bad no one knows who it was. All we know, according to atheists, is who it wasn't.

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