1.6% of the North American population says that the Bible can’t be trusted in what it says.
Example: Atheists used to say that both Herodotus and Daniel were wrong in their descriptions of Babylon. In fact, for many years atheists said that Babylon itself never existed as well as Herodotus and Daniel.
Why would they do this? Well, according to atheists, if any document has been included into the Bible it should automatically be considered a lie or legend or myth.
Now according to Biblical prophecy Babylon, which had become synonymous with evil, would be completely destroyed. Not just a city or a country but a culture would disappear from history. According to God, Babylon would be utterly destroyed, NEVER TO RETURN. Unlike psychics of yesterday and today, God does not make idle predictions. The Babylonian civilization, once an invincible power did disappear completely for over two thousand years - so completely that Herodotus was pronounced unreliable, Daniel a mythological character and the Bible legendary, because they spoke of this civilization of which there was no trace - not until the nineteenth century.
"And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.' 'It shall never be inhabited...from generation to generation." [Isaiah 13.19-20 (See also Jeremiah 50 & 51)]
Not only had this civilization existed, just as the Bible said, it was completely destroyed, just as the Bible prophesied. And then archaeologists found Babylon buried under seventy feet of mud, sand and rubble! The city was surrounded by three separate walls 22 feet, 25 feet and 12 feet thick, running approximately fourteen miles long on all four sides. They found the towers. They were built in a form of terraces - the lowest one was 288 feet square and the total height of the buildings was also estimated to have been 288 feet. Fifty eight million bricks went into the construction of it! The most splendid thoroughfare of the ancient world led in a straight line from the Ishtar gate of Babylon to the tower or temple.
Several times over the centuries reports from Baghdad have made claims regarding projects which aim at rebuilding Babylon as it was in the seventh century B.C. These have never been completed.
Yet before the nineteenth century A.D., and largely because of atheists and their denial of anything to do with Creator God, many were led to doubt what the Bible said about Babylon.
Once again atheists have been proven wrong and the Bible has been proven right.
Will this and similar examples put an end to these people’s claim that the Bible can’t be trusted? Of course not. This 1.6% of the population still maintains their implausible position, not because of the evidence but in spite of the evidence. They must do this or their world-view will collapse.
This is what these people are like. It’s how they think.
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A quick summary of this blog... version 2
ReplyDeleteThesauros say things like:
Atheists claims that the Bible was wrong concerning 'A'. History proved them wrong.
Non-believers replied:
You're wrong, Atheists do not say that.
We know that 'A' is historical.
It's magical events 'B', 'C', 'D', etc... that they do not believe.
Why do you say this?
Why are you are misrepresenting Atheists?
Thesauros:
I would not use the word misrepresenting. I am just point out errors.
Non-believers:
No you are not, the "errors" you point out do not represent their interpretation.
Thesauros:
I don't give a shit. Their beliefs are irrelevant, they are just idiots, and wrong.
Or, in other words...
"I’m not interested in absurd world-views, illogical conclusions, incoherent thought systems. "
... that I do not know anything about.
Are you kidding me!
ReplyDeleteAtheists are proverbial in their mocking the Bible as a bronze age book that is filled to the brim with historical inaccuracies, non-historical characters and outright lies concerning events the Bible records as hitorically accurate.
The ONLY reason that atheists have acquiesced on the points I’m listing is because they have no choice. Archaeology has proven them wrong and wrong and wrong over and over and over again.
Where they still have a choice (The existence of Jesus, the empty tomb, the resurrection, the death of the apostles, the writers of the Gospels, the reliability of the texts) atheists have not changed one iota.
Where atheists still have a choice, any document that has been included into the Bible is automatically considered a lie or legend or myth.
Atheists have not changed and will not change because to do so would mean the end of their belief system.
Atheists are proverbial in their mocking the Bible as a bronze age book that is filled to the brim with historical inaccuracies, non-historical characters and outright lies concerning events the Bible records as historically accurate.
ReplyDeleteSure. I'm certain that there are a portion of atheists out there that, by default, assume the invalidity of the bible's historical accuracy, specifically to spite Christianity. If the bible is historically authentic, supported by the evidence, then atheists should acknowledge that. No argument there, you can have that point.
HOWEVER...
It is JUST as stubborn to presume that the validity of such archeological findings grant the luxury of declaring all other biblical claims true.
Atheists are proverbial in their mocking the Bible as a bronze age book that is filled to the brim with historical inaccuracies, non-historical characters and outright lies concerning events the Bible records as historically accurate.
When historical fact is augmented with magic spells and demons, the historical fact suffers scrutiny by association. And while this may indeed be a mistake, there is something far more important at work. Let's illustrate this next point with an analogy...
Let's use the following hypothetical claim...
Someone tells you that they know a girl named Elizabeth who magically flew to the top of the sears tower on her 16th birthday...
Believer: I know that Elizabeth flew to the top of the sears tower on her 16th birthday, because there is historical evidence to back it up.
Skeptic: You have no such evidence.
Believer: I do indeed! Here's Elizabeth's birth certificate which PROVES SHE EXISTS! And if you look closely, it says she was born on January 13 1991, which PROVES SHE'S HAD HER 16 BIRTHDAY ALREADY! And if you look at her town of birth, its Barrington, which is only about an hour from the sears tower! PROOF!!!
Skeptic: But you've not shown me that she's actually magically flown at all.
Believer: Stupid skeptics! I've shown you SO much evidence already. I mean, you believe every other part of the story BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO CHOICE, I've proved it. But when it comes to HER ACTUAL MAGIC FLIGHT you skeptics are stubborn and DO NOT WANT TO CHALLENGE YOUR WORLD VIEW, lest it collapse. But that's how you are, that's how you think.
Skeptic: But if you'd just show me the evidence for the actual magic flight...
Believer: Why bother?! You already have your mind made up! You won't challenge your worldview!
The moral of the story is; the fact that the sears tower exists, the fact that the girl exists, the fact that she had her 16th birthday already, and the fact that she lived within reasonable proximity to the sears tower ARE NOT THE IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE STORY. Those things can ALL happen without the existence of magic human flight. All the archaeological evidence in the world can prove the people and places in the bible to be true. But no evidence so far has shown ELIZABETH FLEW TO THE TOP OF THE TOWER.
The analogy by the way was obviously inspired by Hugo's analogy up top. Thanks Hugo!
ReplyDelete(((sigh))) Well, now we’re moving into an area where as I’ve already explained, it will take more effort that it’s worth - in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteIf I go down this trail with you I’ll have to hear the silly line, “Extraordinary events require extraordinary evidence.” They clearly do not. Then we'll have to go through the long refuted Hume comments about miracles and it’s just all so tiresome. Now, it’s true that Hume had an excuse for his fallacious reasoning. He didn’t know about probability calculus. Today’s sceptics have no such ignorance to fall back on, yet they insist on repeating past ignorance.
The thing to remember is that any miracle in the Bible, unlike your story of the girl and the tower, never happens without meaning, context and purpose. Biblical miracles are never a random occurrence, like say, the atheist’s belief that a universe just popped into existence for no particular reason.
At any rate, feel free to discuss miracles / supernatural among your friends here if you want but I doubt that I’ll be commenting. Not impossible but not a high probability either.
If I go down this trail with you I’ll have to hear the silly line, “Extraordinary events require extraordinary evidence.” They clearly do not. Then we'll have to go through the long refuted Hume comments about miracles and it’s just all so tiresome. Now, it’s true that Hume had an excuse for his fallacious reasoning. He didn’t know about probability calculus. Today’s sceptics have no such ignorance to fall back on, yet they insist on repeating past ignorance.
ReplyDeleteThe function your assigning for probability calculus is invalid. We could summon such statistical formula for RARE events, but impossible events are not governed by the authority of statistic. Your intentionally redefining the word "extraordinary" to fit your contention. But we both know that your not talking about extreme coincidence or improbability. Your talking about supernatural events that we have yet to establish as a variable, let alone invite it into the equation.
You may THINK that you've refuted such ideas ALREADY, but your ignoring the argument by categorizing them into "refuted" arguments against Christianity that have been "dealt with long ago". This is a mistake.
Purpose is defined by human beings. When we calibrate purposes into a harmony that produce a more prosperous return, our quality of life is better. As such, it's not magic that we find it special when we synchronize ideologies. However the human paradigm is capable of much dynamic. We see this all around the world and in history texts. When an idea becomes enormous it carries it's own "gravity" that favors its expansion (To a point, it's not quite as simple as that). Christianity struck a chord with human paradigm and consciousness. If Christianity involved eating babies, it would not have had equal success.
It is a virtue, to be able to recognize that other "heavy ideologies" carry incentive and support the ambience of the collective social paradigm for the zeitgeist it exists in. This is why religions evolve. They change to fit the social construct for the corresponding era. This is how we define purpose. In another world, the girl who flies to the top of the tower, does so to teach people that if they TRULY BELIEVE, they too will be able to fly... someday.
You're welcome atheistsnackbar.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting to read Thesauros trying to rationalize what is not rational, i.e. believing in magic/miracles.
If there were a newspaper article tomorrow morning saying that 'Elizabeth flew to the top of a tower', he would certainly not believe it, just like us.
Even if it's in a real newspaper, among dozen of real articles, he would still have the same doubts as we do. He would wonder if it's a hoax, or April 1st, or a joke made by the editor, etc...
When it comes to the Bible however...
People like him really have a certain area of their mind where they stockpile their religious ideas and build a vicious circle where the Bible can be trusted because of their personal relationship with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit. That same relationship is in turn being inspired by the divine words of the Bible. Well, some of the words...
Obviously, the vicious circle is way more complex and larger than that. It is flexible enough to constantly provide a way to walk around it, as long as Jesus/God is real.
He cherry picks the parts of the Bible that are true because he is not as retarded as Young Earth Creationist, but he is still not honest enough to admit that it's only because he has faith in God, not evidence, that he believes what he believes.
As he says...
he still maintains his implausible position, not because of the evidence but in spite of the evidence. He must do this or his world-view will collapse.
This is what this person is like. It’s how he thinks.
Touche' Hugo.
ReplyDeleteThe theist will tend to the mental parameters that religion defines in their mind, by adjusting their interpretation of reality. They'll make connections and associations that connect with the dots that they want to, and when they come across an illegal connection, they compose an excuse for allowing the connection.
Or, if it isn't an excuse by definition, its a neglect to accurately describe the agents of logic they use to form a conclusion. Like, calling miracles "improbable". The agent of "miracles" does not operate under the condition of "improbable". Rather, "miracles" is not established as a logical agent because it is currently incompatible with the system, or what we call "life". We therefore cannot assign it conditions exclusive to the system. It must breach the barrier of human placebo and into a reliable mechanic operating within physical reality.
Being that "faith" is exclusively a human condition of subjectivity that describes a mechanic of human reasoning operating specifically when little or no information is available, it is not sufficient as a device to grant the agent "miracles" a reality.