Have you noticed that? We love the concept of punishment - as long as it’s someone else of course.
We love to see justice done - to someone else.
I forget the comedian’s name but he’s from Texas and he said, “In Texas, if you kill somebody? We’re gonna kill you back.”
I’m ok with punishment - for the guilty. You do the crime, you do the time. Where I part with some people though, wouldn’t you know it’s atheists, it’s that I’m even a bigger fan of grace.
Atheists hate grace. If Joran Van der Sloot was to ask Jesus for forgiveness, and I mean the real deal. Not some fake kind of conversion to sway the jury but the real thing? God would forgive him. Just like that. Everything that he’d ever done wrong, no matter how many women he’d killed, lies he’d told, scams he’d tried to run. All of that would be forgiven. If Joran Van der Sloot turned his life over to the Lordship of Jesus the Christ, he would spend eternity in heaven with his Creator.
God’s grace is just flat out scandalous. And atheists hate Him for it.
The Bible says that It is, among other things a description of how God relates to us. If that is true then God NEVER EVER turns away anyone who comes to Him seeking forgiveness - No One - Ever.
Not the adulterer and murderer David
Not the greedy and immature prodigal son
Not the thief
Not the prostitute
Not the drunkard
Not the sexually immoral
Not the liar
Not the Christian killer
Not the denier
You name it - God will forgive you for it - If you repent.
Your Creator did everything possible to open the door for the forgiveness of your sins.
All you have to do is step through the doorway.
Atheists call this God a monster.
Oh, there’s lots of condemnation of sinners in the Bible. Lots of punishment, destroying, killing, eliminating. Each person who refuses the offer of forgiveness for who they are and what they’ve done has brought upon themselves in the past and will bring upon themselves in the future the wrath of God.
That’s how it is with Creator God. Regardless of the behaviour, some will be forgiven, and some will be destroyed.
Only one thing separates one group from the other.
On the day of Jesus’ execution this scenario was played out for all who watched. It was played out for you who can read about it.
Only one distinguishing feature existed between the two men crucified with Jesus.
One asked for forgiveness.
One refused.
One saw his sins forgiven.
One said he didn’t need forgiveness.
One received punishment
One received God’s grace.
I love God’s grace.
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ReplyDeleteI moderate comments on my blog because I get a lot of spam sites posting their caca on my blog and the only way to keep that from happening is to moderate who gets to comment. I'm sorry this upset you, THESAUROS, but I find it hard to believe this is the first time you have run into this sort of thing online. Though I won't approve your thread which complained about moderating comments on my blog, I will read your other comment and if it's not a complaint about moderating comments, I'll go ahead and post it. I would have sent you a message, but there was no link or address, so I responded here. Cheers!
ReplyDeleteI deleted my first comment because I spelled like a preschooler and I wanted to correct my errors.
ReplyDelete"God’s grace is just flat out scandalous. And atheists hate Him for it."
ReplyDeleteSome atheists, on the other hand, have difficulty understanding God's punishment scheme, which isn't "You do the crime, you do the time" but is instead, "You do nothing (original sin), your punishment is eternal."
I'm still curious how we get burdened with original sin if the Creation story in Genesis is metaphorical.
Correction to my previous comment:
ReplyDeleteIf you do nothing (ask God for forgiveness) after doing nothing (original sin), your punishment is eternal.
Mak said..."I forget the comedian’s name but he’s from Texas and he said, “In Texas, if you kill somebody? We’re gonna kill you back"
ReplyDeleteWell Mak its not a attitude i considder as altogether just.It seems kinda tit for tat.
Kinda like the fall.Tit for tat.I created Adam and Eve who were able to mess up,so i hold you all responsible
Im all for understanding and forgiving folks,thats not saying i dont think folks should still be held responsible for their actions.And "honestly" try to change.
Yeah people love the idea of Gods grace. Infact some maybe love the idea a little to much!, they use it to treat folks how they wish.And its an ever ready escape root .Forgive me father for i have sinned ...Opps and again ...opps and again etc
Escapism at its very best.
Faithful folks tell us how much we need God ..And yet when we mention how they dont seem anymore moral or better for having this God ...Their answer is ...Oh we are fallen
A type of escapism Mak ..Thats what it is .
My Cult family revel in this great form of escapism.Every day they are on their knees ... forgive me father for i have sinned .Just like Popes who hide child molestors.
This grace you talk about allows my family to also forget the many folks they let get hurt too Mak.
Forgive me father for we are fallen...Every day on their knees
But the only real honest change that happens ...Is the carpet wears out where they kneel
"You do nothing (original sin), your punishment is eternal."
ReplyDeleteWell, help me understand that. Because from my chair I see someone who has done exactly the same thing that Adam and Eve did. Paradise has been offered to you. The consequence of sin has been explained to you, and sin was chosen anyway. Paradise was lost.
And you call that nothing.
The world is being destroyed because of who we are, and you call that nothing. Our children's futures are in jeopardy and you call that nothing.
God calls it a sin so great that an eternity of punishment won’t begin to pay down your debt. Adam and Eve rejected God (that's what atheists do)
They denied His relevance in their lives (that's what atheists do) and
They set themselves up as the ultimate authority regarding right and wrong (exactly what atheists do).
And you call that nothing.
You’re correct about John 3:18. If you do nothing about the state into which you were born, the punishment is eternal separation from your Creator in an atmosphere that is completely and totally absent any and all good.
============
“Opps and again ...opps and again etc”
You’re leaving out the word repent. Do you know what it means?
========
"Faithful folks tell us how much we need God"
We need Him for forgiveness. Any good that comes out of that is His goal for our lives (Romans 8:28,29). Our goal, our deepest need is forgiveness and redemption.
How come you don’t know this? I thought you came out of a Christian background.
---------------
"This grace you talk about allows my family to also forget the many folks they let get hurt too Mak."
Yes I know. Their screw ups are Jesus’ fault as well as being your excuse for rejecting Jesus. Right?
“I don’t have to ask You to forgive me Jesus, because other people have done things wrong to me. I’m not responsible for my actions because they didn’t treat me right. I can't be expected to do the right thing until my parents make my past be different than it was. If Christians aren’t perfect then God has to excuse my denial of His existence.”
Like I’ve said before, “Good luck with that.”
The world is being destroyed because of who we are, and you call that nothing
ReplyDeleteAren't we who we are by creative instruction from god? Were we not created in "his" image?
Why would god design a flawed creation and then punish his design for being flawed? That's a sick outlook on life, my friend.
And the craziest part? You can actually convince yourself that there is nothing wrong with this strange and sadistic contention. Seriously! You have the audacity to try to school people on ethics and then smear this crap all over your blog?
Our children's futures are in jeopardy and you call that nothing.
...Well, raise the terror alert to red, why don't we? Of course I don't see how any child's future is in jeopardy as long as they accept God's "loving" "grace".
God calls it a sin so great that an eternity of punishment won’t begin to pay down your debt.
Disturbing. This is what religion does. It actually convinces you that you have the moral advantage over atheists, while SIMULTANEOUSLY believing something as immoral as this.
Further, what's up with this post? Atheist lack grace? Do atheists strike you as the kind of people that thrive on revenge? I've met many Christians who just "can't wait to see me burn in hell". I've NEVER met an atheist who would wish something like that on another person.
No person IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would believe that there is a god that is going to actually burn human beings for eternity. AN ETERNITY!!! what's with the permanence? You know I don't mind arguing with a deist, but this stuff is simply sadistic.
AND IT GETS WORSE! Because your religion has you COMPLETELY BLIND to understand the implications of what you suggest. I could give you actual good points ALL DAY LONG and NONE OF IT WILL BE PROCESSED, none of it will even be considered. Even as you read this, your no doubt thinking "dumb atheist just doesn't get it." this is what disturbs me about religion. Why accept that hell exists when you don't accept everything in the bible do you? How can you see some things in the bible as just story, and ETERNAL PUNISHMENT AS RATIONAL? this says something sick about how much YOU LOVE SUFFERING. YOUR OBSESSED.
No Mak are yee simply blind Man.Do you suggest human are going to keep swallowing medicine if it obvious it wont work.In fact even worse, is blatantly observed to make most every folk who swollows it worse.
ReplyDeleteIts blaming no one,when we observe what a load of crock it is.Its simply being "observant" Mak.Being observant is what helps humans stop following other humans mistakes.When you observe a speed freak die in a accident and decide you wont get involved in speeding, its only being "observant" Mak and trying your best to be learning from other peoples mistakes.
Tell me Mak why should i believe in this Jesus forgiveness belief, when its become clear to see Mak believes in him, and yet has become a person who`s so very willing to often misjudge, and then wrongfully lie and slander prople, like you just did about me.
Hmmm Mak.Dont you see you are often also just another fine example!, of what POISON this Jesus faith really is.You mean well,but swallow poison which poisins you.Making you wrongfully judgmantle and often even a little rude
And then you go and blame non believers for not swalling the shit,suggesting we are blaming jesus.What the ??%$#&??
Bl**dy hell i can just see the ignoarant pope making the very same stupid suggestions as you did here.My family do they sit there saying everyone else is to blame!, for not following their christian cult faith too. like you the fools pat their own backs! and say, (ohhh the problem is they just want to blame Jesus).
Its got little to do with my parents other than them just being another fine example of the piosonous escapism Mak .The popes and you Mak, and most every single faith believer we ever meet!! ...Suggest its poison by the bad way they behave after swallowing it .It causes bigotry and ignorance that then brings on wrongful judgement of others intentions ...just like you showed it does Mak
I couldnt care less anymore how you or my parent treat me .But how you treat us wont stop us reminding you all what that poisin you swallow, is doing to you! .Its our duty! as fellow human beings Mak to warn people about poisin that others try palming off as medicine.
Its our world too Mak, and we have to live in it too.So we have good valid reason to be very interested in this poisin thats been poisoning people around us.
Cant you see that Mak
"Atheists hate grace."
ReplyDeleteYep, in a way, I will have to agree with that one, in the sense that, as an Atheist I really hate the RELIGOUS concept of grace.
People who believe in Jesus' forgiveness can always expect to be forgiven by him. Nobody is bad enough that forgiveness will not be offered, that's what Rod says, and that's following the Christian's doctrine.
From an atheist point of view however, there is no ultimate forgiveness, no way to get freed of our guilt by someone else. The guilt we feel when we do something wrong will never go away completly, we have to deal with it ourselves, as mature adults.
Believers on the other hand are too childish to see it that way. They prefer to ask forgiveness to their imaginary friend, it is so much easier than asking it to yourself. That is yet another thing that I find extremely ironic in the religious discourse we read on this blog.
Atheists claim to be good people without god, yes, but they also claim to be BAD people without god, and they have no god to forgive that. The only judge we have is ourselves, and there is no way to escape that judge or expect total forgiveness from that judge. You can only manage to deal with your own guilt, but you can never escape it. You know when you did something wrong, and will ever do.
... by the way, I went to church today (no joke), and pray to thank "God" for the wonderful life I have and the great world we live live. I also complained on how terrible this world is, in part because of religions... I know I had no connection to any deity while doing this but it still feels good to have these spiritual moments once in a while, in a building that makes them feel even more real.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I asked Jesus to forgive you for being such an ignorant disrespectful asshole Rod... too bad that I know he does not exist as a personal god and that it won't change a thing :(
“Aren't we who we are by creative instruction from god? Were we not created in "his" image?”
ReplyDeleteAnd you think that “we” are what God is like? That is so like an atheist.
=============
“Being observant is what helps humans stop following other humans mistakes.”
Right, so you think that:
Corruption is less,
Adultery is less,
Greed is less,
Divorce is less,
Addictions are less.
Porn is less and on and on and on and on.
Again, only in “atheist world” would it seem like we’re making progress in these areas through observation.
============
“Its got little to do with my parents other than them just being another fine example of the piosonous escapism”
Translation: “Other than my parents being the reason for my rejection of Jesus, my rejection of Jesus has very little to do with them.”
"Again, only in “atheist world” would it seem like we’re making progress in these areas through observation"
ReplyDeleteOnly i a Christian world would it be suggested closing our eyes and not observing at might actually work better.
Mak you forgot to point out all things that have improved by making use of our observations.
Mak picks out some bad instances that still happen to exist...And suggests this as proof humans would maybe still be better off closing their eyes and living only by faith.
If man lived your way Mak ...Some folks might still throw children in fires to try and improve fertility too.
Why do you lie about atheists, Thesauros? Isn't lying supposed to be something your morality tells you to avoid?
ReplyDelete“Being observant is what helps humans stop following other humans mistakes.”
ReplyDeleteSo Mak ...You dont agree other churches and priests observing the pope hides the priestly kid-F**ker sarga ,wont hopefully be learning something, that your Jesus obviously! had no power and hope in hell of fixing?.
What use was your faith ...For changing life for those kids and keeping them out of harms way Mak?.
Worthless wasnt it?.Poison that honestly only ever really bred bigotry and complacency
Mak picks out some bad instances that still happen to exist"
ReplyDeleteNot just exist. They are:
Approved of, despite observation
Applauded, despite observation
Encouraged, despite observation as being a means toward a better and more tolerant, open minded and wealthier civilization.
Thesauros has such a negative way of seeing the REAL world we live in. At the same time, he will claim that only through Jesus can you live a fulfilled life.
ReplyDeleteWe all know what he believes, and why. He, on the other hand, cannot ever represent the beliefs of those he calls "functional Atheist" correctly.
He misrepresent and put in the same basket anyone who does not believe in the literal story of Jesus Christ, His Lord.
In other words, he is clearly missing a huge part of the picture. Yet, again, he will claim that "functional Atheists" are the ones missing something.
He is a liar.
"Right, so you think that:
ReplyDeleteCorruption is less,
Adultery is less,
Greed is less,
Divorce is less,
Addictions are less.
Porn is less and on and on and on and on."
"Approved of, despite observation
Applauded, despite observation
Encouraged, despite observation as being a means toward a better and more tolerant, open minded and wealthier civilization"
Prove that Mak.
I certainly dont approve or applaud any and i doubt many non believers do.Your problem is you cant accept humanity isnt perfect even though the idea is also recorded in faith books.Neither can you accept faith doesnt help, infact all to often it just seem to make matter worse.
Not only do we have many imperfect humans that include Maks, Popes and kid bumming priests ,we then also have faith bigots to go and top all matter off nicely.
How will it help Mak?.
As if corruption,greed,adultery,devorce and porn hasnt always been a problem.
ReplyDeleteCrikey Mak ...We use to have stoning people...Man offering women up for sex, to stop men raping another man.And anyone daring devorce to save arguments that children get the full brunt of,might have simply been killed.To bad for the childless children though .....Oh know faiths whats matters most
Oh and there was a time when the great joy of humans having faith ....meant people of same sex relationships would simply be killed too ...None of this modern discussion crap
ReplyDeleteNo bugger having any of that backward stuff!
They simply stuck with the old approved and appluaded measure of killing them
Corruption, adultery, and addictions are applauded?
ReplyDeleteIn arguement, keeping a grasp on reality tends to help one's endeavor. Spinning the fire and brimstone story, for modern society just illustrates how far off the deep end you are. Society isn't perfect, but it never was.
My great grandma was a serious Christian who overdosed on revelations. She believed all that end of the world stuff. She would write my dad letters about how the Russians have planted mines along the coast of California and she'd make sure to point out which of us are going to hell in her letters. Good times.
Anyway, you keep hiking that trail mak, you'll make your way up crazy mountain soon enough. Hell, your half way there.
Oh and anyone dare question ?
ReplyDeleteGrrrrr heresy ...Terrible crime
Gallows quick ...Naaa stones are cheaper...who cares if it hurts more
No suppose nothings much has got any better really, since faiths been put in its place ...has it Mak
I'm curious, which nation are you refering to when elaborating on the vast corruption you speak of?
ReplyDeleteI'll ask you again, mak.,,
ReplyDeletewhy would a designer create a flawed design just to turn around and punish "his" creation for having flaws?
That's like me building a bridge that only supports 100 lbs and then putting 200 lbs on it, watching it break, and then cursing the bridge for breaking.
Yep, with Christianity You can make yourself believe ANYTHING.
I await your "insightful" answer.
"To bad for the childless children though .....Oh know faiths whats matters most"
ReplyDeleteSorry ..Was supposed to read ..To bad for the children totally without parents.No keeping faith rules was more important.
Faiths were that harsh Mak ...they far prefered the children to need be suffering their parents arguments each and every single night.Than allow any devorce.A woman who had a husband who beat her,had no escape other than suicide.
No Mak ...Now that faiths gotten put in its place a little ...Lifes simply gotten worse and worse in every single way hasnt it.