A
client called me that once. In a story too long to tell here, this
man had to be discharged from the treatment centre in which I was
working and he was a patient. He was angry - at me. That’s what he
called me on the way out. In his mind, at that point (perhaps still)
I had little or no value.
There
are lots of people in the world like that. Babies in the wombs of
mothers who don’t want them. The poor. The mentally ill. Criminals.
Certainly criminals.
Read the comments about someone who has
committed a crime and “Lock him up and throw away the key,” is a
common sentiment. Few people see value in those who have spent their
lives taking from the rest of us.
Someone
exactly like that made an outlandish request. Without having darkened
the door of any Church, without having done anything of value for
society, a man, hanging on a cross uttered what was probably the
first genuine prayer of his life when he asked Jesus, “Please let
me spend eternity in Your presence.”
And
Jesus said, “Sure.”
Do
you get this? A couple days ago Hugo said that I deserve to spend
eternity in hell. He said it like he thought that might be a surprise
to me, or that it might shock me in some way, but he's absolutely right. That is exactly where I deserve to
be – for eternity. So does every human who has or will ever exist.
This
guy on the cross, like you and I and everyone else had nothing to
offer in exchange for eternal life in paradise. All he had time for
was one prayer and he used his time wisely.
“Would
you let me in Jesus?”
“Sure.”
To
Jesus, you and I and everyone else have value. We have value, not
because of how much we make or what we can do. Our value to God is
not based on how we look or even how good we are to others. Our value
to our Creator is based on the fact that He made us. He formed us. He
knew us before our parents brought together their sperm and egg.
Jesus
longs to spend eternity with us and the only thing that can keep that
from happening is us. The only thing that can keep that from
happening is our neglecting, or worse, our refusing to ask.
Don’t
be a dick head.
Accept
Jesus’ offer of forgiveness / salvation.
Jesus made no such offer.
ReplyDeleteThere's a book that claims otherwise, and I accept you believe in the veracity of this book. (As an aside, you believe it more strongly than you believe the claims this book actually makes, which is rather odd.)
However, the book is easily shown to be of questionable value, when assessing it for truth claims. Aspects of philosophy, bronze-age zeitgeist and sociology (with a bit of geography) can be found in it, and to a modest extent, this makes the book valuable. Beyond that, however, it's simply a collection of stories.
WEM, that post sounded familiar so, FYI, Rod is trolling:
ReplyDeletehttp://thesauros-store.blogspot.com/2010/03/fucking-dick-head.html
Moreover, by stating that 'Hugo said that I deserve to spend eternity in hell', he proved what I mentioned on the other thread: he is incapable of understanding certain things, even after repeated explanations. I still agree with what you said though, at least in part, in the sense that he could be able to understand if he was more willing to. However, when the same thing is written several times, being unwilling is synonym to not being able to, in my opinion, since there is a point where you would have to literally force the person to take their time to make them understand something, since they are just so bad at it... isn't that the same as not being able to? Close enough ;)
Anyway, regarding the 'Hugo said...' part, what he was referring to is the following; something I mentioned more than once on this blog, using different language obviously:
"No wonder you wrote a book called Trolling for Atheists; you are literally a troll. What's funny though is that you don't do it on purpose I suppose; otherwise you would be the biggest liar ever and that would not make you the biggest sinner ever at the same time; someone that deserved nothing but Hell according to the beliefs you hold to so dearly."
Rod, this comment does NOT mean that I think you deserve to go to Hell. As I am telling WEM, if this requires explanations, it's because you are not able to understand by yourself...
You know what guys? Like the kids around here say,
ReplyDeleteYOLO
I think you should take your beliefs and run with them. Stick to them till the end of your lives, and, oh ya, Good luck with that.
Rod has nothing intelligent to say? What a surprise!
ReplyDeleteWhat's fascinating by the way is that even when being irrelevant, juvenile and funny, you still make reasoning errors:
you should take your beliefs and run with them. Stick to them till the end of your lives
No Rod, even if you are just writing to laugh and insult, you have it wrong. My beliefs change based on facts. Facts will change and new ones will be established throughout my life. Hence, I will NEVER stick to my beliefs.
"My beliefs change based on facts. Facts will change and new ones will be established”
ReplyDeleteAlways playing the clown, aren't you Hugo?
In reality, your beliefs are based upon wishful thinking.
First of all, There is no “fact” establishing this as a universe that is material only.
Second, facts don't change.
A fact is something that actually exists;
A fact is reality;
A fact is truth;
A fact is something that is known to exist or the have happened;
A fact is a truth known by actual experience or observation;
A fact is something that is known to be true;
. Atheists live as though our universe is just one of an infinite number of universes - a multiverse with zero evidence of its existence. . Atheists live as though material things can just pop into existence without an external cause. Even though that's never been observed, tested or verified.
. Atheists live as though life can come from non life, even though that's never been observed, tested or verified,
. Atheists live as though God does not exist, but it's all wishful thinking.
You and your fellow travellers live by a ubiquitous and fatal human mode of thinking. This shows up best as atheists attempt to deal with God's revealed plan for history.
. It won't happen
. If it does happen, it won't be bad
. It it happens and it's bad, it won't happen to me
. It's it's bad and it happens to me, there was nothing I could have done about it.
Go your own way boys, and good luck. Maybe existing in the eternal and absolute absence of love won't be so bad.
Always playing the clown, aren't you Hugo?
ReplyDeleteBy starting with a baseless insult you show who the clown is around here.
In reality, your beliefs are based upon wishful thinking.
Name me one.
First of all, There is no “fact” establishing this as a universe that is material only.
Because you are unable to reason properly regarding this topic, you make the same mistake over and over again. That's why I told WEM that you cannot understand. You play around with the world material without understanding that the word can change meaning.
For instance, we discuss non-material things all the time, in a general sense. Music is not material, love is not material, yet these things exist. At the same time, everything we study about the universe is material and we have no evidence to support the idea that something non-material can exists. Can you spot the two meanings of the word material?
Apparently no! Otherwise, you would not write these false sentences. What's annoying is that you write only a few word and it takes me several to try to correct the mistakes. Again, that's why I conclude that you are simply incapable of understanding these basic principles.
Second, facts don't change.
Reality changes; facts describe reality. Hence, facts change.
It is a fact that I am sitting down right now. Oops, I am now standing to write this line. It is now a fact that I am standing while writing.
Here I have no doubt... you can understand that.
Atheists live as though our universe is just one of an infinite number of universes - a multiverse with zero evidence of its existence
No. What you don't understand is the difference between what we know is true and what's possible. In order to prove that the statement 'There is just 1 universe' is false, all you have to do is show that it is possible for more than 1 universe to exist. This is what science tells us; not Atheists. It is a fact that it's possible that our universe is one of many. It changes very little about what we understand about the world, but it does kill the idea that we know there is only 1. It could be 1; it could be many.
Atheists live as though material things can just pop into existence without an external cause. Even though that's never been observed, tested or verified.
It has been observed, tested and verified. Of course, the problem is that you refuse to read into what that means exactly and are not able to process the correct definition of the words used.
Nothing to do with being an Atheists by the way. That problem is in your own mind only.
. Atheists live as though life can come from non life, even though that's never been observed, tested or verified,
ReplyDeleteThis is the same kind of problem that you face when discussing a multi-verse. In order to prove that the statement 'Life cannot start from non-life' is false, one only needs to show that it is possible for life to arise from non-life. We know this is the case as there are several ways this could have had happened. Moreover, unlike the multi-verse, the certainty is not the same here. We know that at some point there was no life on Earth, when it was formed, and then there was life around 1 billion years later. It could have come from space, carried on asteroids, but that is much less likely than having it kick started from organic elements found on it.
Here, we are in a middle ground situation I believe. You are unable to understand some of this for some reason I don't understand, but mostly choose not to. Nothing to do with being an Atheist by the way. That problem is in your own mind only... again.
Atheists live as though God does not exist
Correct, Atheists live as though there was no God because they don't believe in one. What else are they supposed to do? Pretend there is one, try to guess the correct one and then go with it? That's madness. Moreover, I would say that most Atheists live as if there was a God in many situations. Doing the "right" thing sometimes, when no one is watching, is exactly the same as acting as if God was watching.
, but it's all wishful thinking.
Reasoning error. Atheists don't wish there was no God. They don't believe it. It does not mean that it's impossible for a god to exist and it certainly does not mean that Atheists prefer a world without God. For example, if the existence of a god would also mean that there is something after death, then of course it would be nice to have a god!
You and your fellow travellers live by a ubiquitous and fatal human mode of thinking. [...] It's it's bad and it happens to me, there was nothing I could have done about it.
Rubbish talk coming form someone who denies reality in order to make up a false religion. I wonder why you even bother writing these few empty words. Actually, no, we know why you do so:
Go your own way boys, and good luck. Maybe existing in the eternal and absolute absence of love won't be so bad.
You want to insult for no reason. You want to threaten with a Hell you believe in; this absence of love you talk about. You pretend to be in a relationship with a loving god but in reality you are the one doing all the wishful thinking. You are the one who creates his own reality in his head because the real one is just too hard to grasp.
In any case, you seem to insist a lot on the 'go away' these days. I suppose you are getting tired of my writing and it's probably a good opportunity for me to take a break and stop wasting time here. What's the point of "discussing" with someone who denies reality in order to keep wishing that death is not the end?
A rather sanguine response for someone headed to eternal doom. I'm sure if you had not been in such a rush to respond you would not have cobbled together such a mash of nonsense.
ReplyDeleteI know it's nonsense to you. That's one of my main points. The fact that you are not able to address specific sentences, specific ideas, specific points, and resort to childish responses prove my point every single day.
ReplyDeleteYou even again bring up the pointless threat of eternal doom. This only makes you appear scared, which you deny you are, and simple minded, which I know you are.
We live on the same planet and share the same reality, yet have complete different views of this same reality because you only process a fraction of it and then make up stories in your mind.
How can warning you of hell be a pointless threat?
ReplyDeleteBecause Hell is as likely to be real as Adam and Eve are.
ReplyDeleteCan you show otherwise?
Not to you.
ReplyDeleteExactly; you cannot. Unlike you, all of my beliefs, ALL, can be explained to anyone who wants to listen. You get that? ALL of them.
ReplyDeleteYou, on the other hand, will resort to calling me dull of mind and slow of thought "spiritually" as soon as I start rejecting the reasons you give to believe in your "spirituality".
Hell is a real "spiritual" place that I might be able to believe in only if I believed in "spiritual" things. In order to believe I need to... believe.
That's what you don't get. That's what you are incapable of understanding for some reason.
As WEM, it is also because you are unwilling but after so many years, it's clear that there things that you are unable to even take the time to consider. It might be some emotional blockage or simply lack of reasoning skills, I am not sure, but what's clear is that you refuse to take the time to go statement by statement and support your claims. It frustrates you and make you resort to name calling.
At the same time, you will claim that some of my beliefs are like that to. You will ignore the fact that you misrepresent my beliefs and go on attacking strawman arguments. You will refuse to look at the difference between facts, certainties and possibilities. If it does not "feel" right, it must be wrong to you.
I cannot show you other wise until and unless God opens your spiritual eyes. And of course, when He does that you won't need me to understand where you went wrong. Until God opens your spiritual eyes, you're making decisions and forming beliefs with only a fraction of the information that you need.
ReplyDeleteYep, that was exactly my point Rod. Thanks for confirming that I am right.
ReplyDeleteI am really sorry that you are incapable of processing the information found in the real world, but I am happy for you that you have this spiritual world in your head to make you feel better. Arguments from ignorance are a fantastic way to cope with the nagging feeling of not knowing.
Moreover, in your case, the consequences of this delusion seem to be only positive. You lie about Atheists and act like a bigot on your blog and in your books, but that's nothing compared to the horror some other religious people commit in the name of their religion. Thank you for not being a dick head.