Store up for yourselves treasures in Heaven
where moth and rust cannot destroy and thieves cannot break in and steal

Wednesday, May 26, 2010

Reply to Gandolf

I'd told Gandolf that it was a dangerous thing to focus on those of us who live out our faith poorly and use that as an excuse to ignore what Jesus is saying to HIM.

He then went off on another tangent about being threatened with eternity and how atheism would never do such a horrible thing.

My reply:

So, rather than seeing Jesus' words to YOU as a warning, you see them as a threat? I wonder why? When I tell my kids about playing in the street, is that a threat or a warning? When I tell my kids about smoking, is that a threat or a warning? When I tell my kids about STD's, is that a threat or a warning? When I tell my kids about good and bad touching, is that a threat or a warning? When Jesus tells you about how He came to rescue you from eternal separation from God and how to access that rescue, you see that as a threat instead of a warning. Why is that?

Now, as to the beauty of those who think we should all reject faith.

People who aggressively eschewed faith killed almost 100 million people in the twentieth century. Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Honecker, Castro, Ho, Marx, Engels, Lenin, Kim, Ceausescu and virtually every atheist that blogs about religion says that the world would be a better place if Christianity was made a thing of the past. The point of their agendas is, ‘Religion is harmful. Get rid of it and everything will begin to move toward civil society.’ Marx and Engels put it bluntly, “Abolish all religion and all morality.”

The fallacy in the belief that peace will reign if religion is dismantled is seen in the fact that in the Chinese invasion of Tibet, the October Revolution, the Russian Civil War, the Sino-Indian War, the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia, the Chinese Civil War and other conflicts around the globe, both past and present, religion is nowhere to be seen while atheism is front and centre. Richard Dawkins simply cannot bring himself to admit that atheism was the driving force from which atheists, directing governments made up exclusively of atheists was obsessed with spreading anti-God propaganda, and specialized in the murder of millions of believers. Soviet rulers, people who thought that humans without faith were more peaceful than people of faith systematically and efficiently destroyed the majority of churches and killed the majority of religious leaders during a period from 1918 - 1941.

Does this somehow absolve Christians and other religious people from the evil that has been perpetrated in the name of that religion? Not at all. That is simply the other side of the human coin.

ALL of us have sinned and fall short of God’s expectations for us. There is a price to be paid for that sin, that evil that resides within us. Jesus said, not “Mak” (it’s not my faith) but Jesus said that you can either let Him pay that penalty or YOU will suffer the consequences.

Trying to draw attention away from this fact by saying you don’t agree with how the universe was arranged will not help you avoid the reality of the fact that a decision has to be made. Jesus is warning you, Gandolf. Why reject that warning?

11 comments:

  1. Jesus (God) created everything.

    jesus sacrificed himself to himself so that humans could have salvation and go to heaven even if they dont desreve it (because he decided to make it that way).

    Jesus warn humans of the existence of hell.

    Jesus says that if you dont believe the points above you go to hell (that he created) no choice here.

    ******

    So, rather than seeing Jesus' words to YOU as a threat, you see them as a warning? I wonder why?

    ReplyDelete
  2. ALL of us have sinned and fall short of God's expectation of us.

    If god didn't expect it, how could he be all knowing?
    Could he not see the whole thing coming, given that he designed the whole damn thing? Or are you just an idiot? Hmmm...

    ReplyDelete
  3. My being an idiot has nothing to do with us needing to adapt to the reality in which we live. If what Jesus said is true, then our liking it or not is irrelevant.

    What do you mean "no choice here." There is street by our place where the speed limit is 60kms. It could easily be 80 or even 100 but it's 60. I think it's absolutely ridiculous and I have a choice to drive what I think is a safe speed on that section of road OR I have the choice to obey the law. Liking it has nothing to do with my choice.

    God isn't asking you to like how things are designed. He is saying make a choice. You have. So stop whining.

    ReplyDelete
  4. According to christianity, nobody respect the speed limit sign, and nobody agrees on what the speed limit is.

    But it does not matter, because Jesus made the sign and as long as you believe this you can ge forgiven

    if you dont believe Jesus made it, then ur fucked. Believe, or else...

    No choice

    ReplyDelete
  5. The "choice" is obey or be tormented forever.
    There is no free will.
    We know for a fact that God chooses who He wishes to save. He has said this in His Word.
    The rest He burns to show His Power and Might.
    If He didn't do this how could we know His Power?
    You are the losing side.
    WE WIN.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Mak said..."When I tell my kids about playing in the street, is that a threat or a warning? When I tell my kids about smoking, is that a threat or a warning? When I tell my kids about STD's, is that a threat or a warning? When I tell my kids about good and bad touching, is that a threat or a warning? "

    Hi Mak.

    No i dont see this is quite the same as a type of threat,because its a warning .All these things are actually well proven to quite likely be dangerous.We have evidence to suggest this warning is (warrented).Therefore it cannot be seen as only threating type bully tactics merely designed to frighten and make people fearful enough to conform.


    Mak said .."When Jesus tells you about how He came to rescue you from eternal separation from God and how to access that rescue, you see that as a threat instead of a warning. Why is that?"

    Well eternal seperation is still kinda threatning even though it sounds like the old hell meme, be it a kinda watered down version.

    Have you any real evidence at all that this "warning" is actually warrented Mak ?,if not then it still only a threat, because we know not yet that its actually warrented.Until we have real evidence and proof that this so called "warning" is warrented,its little different to fear tactics likely used at Har Magiddo,to keep people prepared to be in the faith of sacrificing children.

    Warning your kids about the dangers of Smoking,playing on the street,STDs,bad touching are all valid things to be wary of and so are not mere threats because we know these warnings are honestly warrented.

    The same cannot be said of Har Magiddo faithful suggestions of needs to sacrifice children, or suggestions that unfaithful people WILL end up with eternal separation from God or burning in some place faithful folks call hell.

    Both these claims/warnings above are merely "threats" because so far there is yet still absolutely no evidence for proof to actually prove otherwise.

    Mak you or any other faithful person or even those back at Har Magiddo ,surely cant think some of us humans cant see the blatant use of treats being applied to try and INFORCE people to conform ...Do you?.

    Yes i understand you feel non belief makes some people slow of thought and dull of mind ...or what ever it was, i did quietly notice you suggest once or twice of some folks.

    But look Mak these threatning promises start to sound awfully familiar to the same type of threats i hear coming from the mouths of some local gang members in my neighbourhood."you better do what we say OR you`ll pay for it".

    You know what im saying?.

    Im not suggesting you are like these gang people Mak...I know you do honestly care! and really do have good intentions!.But the thing is im also sure some folks at Har Magiddo also honestly had good intentions.But they didnt see that their faith was full of threats and bully tactics either,because thats how they themselves became to be the FAITHFUL child killers they were.

    To them need to sacrifice children was a "warning" ...not a threat

    And when things went well (fertile) ...its was said it was "because" of sacrifice .....When things didnt go so well ....it was likely said it was "because" samebody wasnt abiding by the needs for sacrifice.

    No need for good evidence! ...No need to prove the "warning" was (warrented) .....It was a (matter of FAITH) .

    ReplyDelete
  7. Sorry Mak, though i like you as a person, who i can tell deep down honestly means well....I cannot allow myself follow your faith.

    Ive personally experienced the suffering "caused by faith" Mak ...I study the suffering caused by faith, even in these very examples you provide such as Har Magiddo....Lest we forget ,i will remember! the many deaths that happened at Jonestown ...The BLOOD SHED and SUFFERING of ALL THESE MANY PEOPLE who suffered through humans stupidity of guessing matters of faith for thousands of years now...DEMAND THAT I DO SO!....THEY DEMAND THAT I DONT SIMPLY TURN A BLIND EYE TO IT.

    Now should there be a God-/s that i must face in some afterlife ....I can honestly say i FEAR NOT no matter what threats are thrown at me here on earth by folks of faith guessing!

    If there is a God-/s who would wish to damn me and make me suffer for all eternity ....Simply because i cared about suffering and blood shed caused that i actually SAW and even myself EXPERIENCED to HAVE happened through many "faiths" .

    Then so be it .If i must suffer through (honestly caring about these matters) than i will take that risk.

    Atleast i can die knowing (i didnt get involved in promoting) things that there was little evidence to prove they were actually warrented.I can say i never tried threatening people into faith.

    You can suggest im just focussing on --> "those of us who live out our faith poorly and use that as an excuse to ignore what Jesus is saying to HIM" like you judged me

    But i could simply say the same about you just focussing on the danger smoking causes some people....Or focussing on those who get hurt playing on roads.Hmmmm?.

    No Mak there is actually much more to my reasons for NOT being willing to follow in the same footsteps of the "faith guessors" ...than you realize

    ReplyDelete
  8. Mak said..."So, rather than seeing Jesus' words to YOU as a warning, you see them as a threat? I wonder why? When I tell my kids about playing in the street, is that a threat or a warning? When I tell my kids about smoking, is that a threat or a warning? When I tell my kids about STD's, is that a threat or a warning? When I tell my kids about good and bad touching, is that a threat or a warning? When Jesus tells you about how He came to rescue you from eternal separation from God and how to access that rescue, you see that as a threat instead of a warning. Why is that?"

    Well firstly how about the fact you are wrong...Its not actually Jesus telling me anything here ....Its the bible written by men ...men who we know cant always be trusted who will lie and deceive ...Specially if they can rule ...and gain control...and benefit from doing so.....Mere men of the many "faith movements" who also suggest shit like sacrificing children....Who suggest talking donkeys ...Or talking snakes

    These words are not coming from Jesus to me at all Mak ....Lets get a little real and honest here ...The words are actually coming from Mak to Me.

    Thats the worry ...Thats just one problem ...If God is a God who supposedly created a whole universe ...Why he need a bible to let me and others know these things ? ...Why does he go and leave the door wide open for Har Magiddo to happen? ..Why leave the door wide open for Benny Hinn to lead the sheep up the garden path and fleece them? ...Why he need Mak to tell me?.

    Somethings amiss here ..Somethings seems a little fishy .

    So no Mak you miss one very big mistake you made here.

    It is not actually word coming straight from Jesus to Gandolf at all.Far far from it!!

    Lets at least keep it a little honest and real.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Fair enough. I'm certainly not going to flog you with it. Go in peace.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Mak said.."Richard Dawkins simply cannot bring himself to admit that atheism was the driving force from which atheists, directing governments made up exclusively of atheists was obsessed with spreading anti-God propaganda, and specialized in the murder of millions of believers"

    Well im not willing to simply admit my non faith is pushing me towards wanting to become a tyrant like Stalin or Mao, who wishes to see every faithful person on earth killed either.

    Just because i dont have faith why/how does likely act to start making me turn into some mentally disturbed dictating tyrant who would wish for the disposal/killing of faithful people?.

    What indoctrinative material would i use to become such?,that could be honestly compared to indoctrinative suggestive type material of faith books that obviosly DOES lead some onward to sadly become the abusers that they all to often have sometimes become?.

    There is no such material that non believers read in common,like faithful do have in common with book such as the bible...With harsh suggestive material contained within its book covers.

    Do we see this tyrancy dictatorship phenomenon happening in places like Sweden? ...NZ is very much mostly secular now! ..yet i still never happen to see many mentally disturbed tyrants all running around going "kill all the faithful" ??.

    I dont agree with everything Richard Dawkins says ,but im sure not surprised he wont accept some connection between mere lack of faith and the killer tyrants like Stalin and Mao.

    Stalin and Maos problems were not formed by merely being atheist....They had other much more overiding problems ...Stalin had reasons to really hate faithful ..whom he had been abused by...Mao simply didnt want any groups who (might) oppose his tyrant dictatorship.

    It is very DISHONEST and wrong this tired old worn out tit for tat type propaganda, of faithful which try connecting simply faithlessness of people, to such tyrancy and anarchy and nihilism dictatorships etc.

    If it held any honesty ...we should surely expect to see places like Sweden and NZ literally teaming with dictators, tyrants and killers of faithful folks , by now.But no, we dont

    ReplyDelete
  11. Thesauros said... "Fair enough. I'm certainly not going to flog you with it. Go in peace. "

    I didnt take it that way Mak.It didnt really offend me at all.I understand faithful folks must wonder what non believers motives might be.

    No problem.

    My best wishes to you! and your wife! and family! and friends!.All the way from little NZ

    ReplyDelete