Store up for yourselves treasures in Heaven
where moth and rust cannot destroy and thieves cannot break in and steal

Thursday, August 25, 2011

Bret - The end

It’s usually at this stage of the discussion that atheists, the honest ones anyhow, admit that, “All you’ve done is show that this is a Deistic universe.”

That’s quite a statement, one that means that person is no longer an atheist - at least intellectually. He'll probably still live as though Creator God doesn't exist but in the back of h/her mind, he knows the truth. Actually, I believe that one day there won’t be any such thing as an atheist. And it will be science that makes that possible - inevitable! There will be only those who are for Creator God and those who are against their Creator.

The facts that I’ve been presenting to Bret and Hugo and anyone else who is listening do indeed show at the very least, that something from outside of and that is transcendent to nature brought the material universe into existence.

And yet, most atheists will ignore this fact while they hope for the day when someone, somewhere will come up with a third option, something - anything - that excludes Creator God as the solution to the origins of matter. In fact, most atheists will enter hell still waiting for their “miracle” answer.

Hugo knows that:
. There cannot be an infinite regress of cause, yet he lives as though there can.
. Matter has not existed for eternity, yet he lives as though it has.
. Matter cannot bring itself into existence, yet he lives as though it did.

Hugo claims that his belief in these things has led him to conclude that Creator God does not exist. In fact, he says, he’s positive.

It is truly, truly sad but such is the case for those who have committed their lives to being the masters of their fate and the captains of their soul. God has said to these people, So be it. Chart your course. Whether you go east or west, north or south, your destination will be the same. You will have indeed been responsible for where you end up.


6 comments:

  1. You lie and/or you did not get what I mean.

    ...but you don't care about being corrected, so keep trolling! :)

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  2. Actually, it's interesting to correct at least 2 things right away:

    1) If someone gets to a point where they tell you that all you have shown is a Deistic universe, it does not mean they believe it to be true. The point is that even if you were right, it WOULD not prove more than that...

    2) Hugo claims that his belief in these things has led him to conclude that Creator God does not exist. In fact, he says, he’s positive.

    No.... the things you listed here have NOTHING to do with a disbelief in Creator God.

    Fail. Nice try though.

    ...but again, you don't care about being corrected, right? So you'll just ignore what I said!

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  3. I'm certainly not saying anything about this being a deistic universe. What I'm saying is you stopped talking about the Biblical God a long time ago, and you're trying to prove a deistic universe, not a Christian one. If anything, what you've been arguing in the past few posts is largely un-Christian, secular deism based on cherry-picked science, not Biblical faith.

    I just worry for your soul, is all, because if you are partially right, I don't think it's fair for you to be damned to hell with me just because you wanted to twist Christianity around to fit your rhetorical needs. I'm not worth it, I guess is what I'm saying. You should stick to the Bible, and save yourself the damnation that comes from quote-mining scientists whose words mean nothing when it comes to Jesus.

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  4. I just worry for your soul, is all, because if you are partially right, I don't think it's fair for you to be damned to hell with me just because you wanted to twist Christianity around to fit your rhetorical needs.

    That's hilarious.

    You know, in a way, that's close to what I keep insisting on: Thesauros lies a lot, so I am trying to save him from Hell by telling him to stop!

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  5. It's not lying, it's what I would call "rhetorical reaching." It's like keeping your feet from going over the line, but trying to bend way over to grab someone on the other side. I think it's a totally valid tactic. I just don't think God agrees.

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  6. “I'm certainly not saying anything about this being a deistic universe.”

    And I’ve never accused you of being an atheist who's honest with yourself.
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    “What I'm saying is you stopped talking about the Biblical God a long time ago, and you're trying to prove a deistic universe, not a Christian one.”

    Since all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in Creation, I disagree. But from your perspective, the supernatural cause of the natural universe allows for Deism, while the historical Jesus (“God was in Jesus reconciling the world to Himself”) brings us directly to Theism, even though technically Jesus was involved from the “beginning” with purpose and plan.
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    “I just worry for your soul, is all,”

    I can tell. You’re a regular sweetheart. Your wife is lucky to have found you.
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    “I'm not worth it,”

    Oh, Bret - You’re being way too hard on yourself. Now I'm not going to be able to sleep worrying about your self-esteem.
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    “and save yourself the damnation that comes from quote-mining scientists”

    especially when I’m not an expert in their fields.

    Good night boys

    ReplyDelete