Hugo the atheist says I’m a bigot.
Hmm. What should I do?
What should I do if Hugo calls me a hypocrite?
What should I do if Hugo says that I’m:
A Liar
Dishonest
Mean
Violent
Selfish
Obnoxious
and any other character defect he can think of?
Should I say he’s wrong?
How can I, for he’s not wrong?
I’m all those things and more. In fact, to varying degrees, every human on the planet is a hypocrite, a bigot, a liar, selfish, self-obsessed and so on.
This of course poses a problem for those atheists who, on the one hand claim to be good and therefore not in need of any Saviour God. On the other hand, recognising that being “good” implies honesty, they’re forced to admit that they do wrong things. Therefore they must admit that they are only “good” in comparison to those who are far worse, and they are in fact not at all good in comparison to those who are much better. Lying to oneself to avoid recognising these inner contradictions makes being an atheist very difficult indeed.
While I’m only a tiny fraction of those negative characteristics compared to before Jesus came into my life, I’ll be those things to some degree until the day I die. And then, unlike Hugo who will stay the same on into eternity, I’ll be transformed completely.
I have no reason to deny my earthly reality.
Let satan and all his friends criticise and even defame me for the rest of their lives.
Messiah Jesus came to die for sinners such as me (Romans 5:8).
I’m a sinner.
He’s my Saviour.
Since I’m not an atheist I have no need to deny who I really am.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
poses a problem for those atheists who, on the one hand claim to be good and therefore not in need of any Saviour God
ReplyDeleteLie #1
recognising that being “good” implies honesty, they’re forced to admit that they do wrong things.
Lie #2
they must admit that they are only “good” in comparison to those who are far worse
Lie #3
they are in fact not at all good in comparison to those who are much better
Lie #4
Lying to oneself to avoid recognising these inner contradictions makes being an atheist very difficult indeed.
Lie #5
unlike Hugo who will stay the same on into eternity, I’ll be transformed completely
Lie #6
I have no reason to deny my earthly reality. [...]Since I’m not an atheist I have no need to deny who I really am.
Yet you do! You deny you are a mortal human.
You believe, and insist, that you are an eternal soul inside a material body. You deny the fact that, at death, your body, which generates all the conscious experiences you have now, will cease to behave as such.
You have no way to prove otherwise, yet you have faith that it will be the case because of what other people told you, because it feels right emotionally, and because some people 2,000 years ago, who had no clue of how a human body works, wrote myths about their God that you decide to believe... just like the people around you.
That's not the most important however! Because even if you were right about our soul living after physical death, then that would mean that everybody will change. You just have strong confidence in one of hundreds of different scenarios that could happen if that were the case... That's the part I find even sillier than the belief in the soul in the first place: the fact that you think you know THE one, and only one, true outcome.
As many others before me have said: all religions cannot be all right, but it's possible that they are all wrong.
Another comment I wanted to make, and it's appropriate here I guess since you labelled this post as 'Call Me Names'.
ReplyDeleteI'm really sorry for being mean to you, calling you a bigot, ignorant, naive and so on... I had been through less happy times recently (even is less happy for me still me happy compare to so many others, but anyway...) and it was a way for me to pass my frustration a little bit I guess.
After a conversation with my girlfriend during which the topic of religion came out, I indirectly discussed what I write here on this blog and it made me realize that it was wrong to do so. Not because I am lying or anything like that, but simply because it is not who I am.
In "real" life, I never tell bad things to people, never insult anybody, and always focus on what's good. Therefore, I think I should stop being different online.
At the same time, I still think that it's pertinent to point out when you make blatant false statements concerning those you label as "atheists", because I am part of this group.
But I say 'those you label' because I still have a hard time understanding what it means for you to be an atheist exactly.
I realized that with your recent posts especially because you used the term 'Hugo the atheist'. So my honest question to you would be: what does it mean?
It might sound silly, but here on this blog, I am especially a non-christian, exposing why I disbelieve in your religion and don't adhere to your ideas, but I don't think I ever insist on the fact that I don't believe in gods at all...
I did mention that I don't believe in an afterlife, that would be one think that define me as an atheist but that's about it. Atheism is a consequence of everything else I believe in so I cannot find much more to say without any context... So that's why I am asking: Why do you call me an atheist? what does it imply to you? what does it mean?
oops, typos...
ReplyDelete(even is less happy for me still me happy compare to so many others...
=
(even IF less happy for me still MEANS happy compare to so many others...
I call you an atheist because you live as though God doesn’t exist. You do not give Him the honour that He is due.
ReplyDeleteYes, functional atheist would be correct.
I’m afraid for you because I think you believe that if you’re wrong and He does exist then you’ll be ok because “at least I tried to be a good person.” Am I wrong?
I define an atheist as someone who denies the existence of God. While you may not deny God’s existence (“sure it’s possible") the eternal result for you will be the same as for those who do deny His existence. I don’t want that to happen to you, but because of the road that you’re on it can’t be any other way - at least for now.
you live as though God doesn’t exist
ReplyDeleteI think it's the opposite: even if I don't believe invisible omnipresent gods exist to judge us, I live as if it was the case, in the sense that I don't change the way I act when I am all alone and nobody is around watching.
Thus, what we disagree on, in reality, is what "God" would like us to do, and how we can determine what that would be.
I think you believe that if you’re wrong and He does exist then you’ll be ok because “at least I tried to be a good person.” Am I wrong?
It's a non issue; so I have to say that you are wrong because I don't do anything just in case there is a god waiting for us after death.
It's not a contradiction with what I just wrote by the way, because "God" is just a basis, I use others; not sure if it's clear by itself though...
Another way to answer would be to ask you if you believe that: If you're wrong and Allah does exist then you'll be ok because "at least I tried to believe in one God"?
Doesn't it just sound silly to you? Same thing with me...
I’m afraid for you ... the eternal result for you will be the same as for those who do deny His existence. I don’t want that to happen to you ...
Even if you claim that you are saved, and sincerely believe that, each time you write something like this, it shows that you are in fact projecting your fears onto others. I know you are afraid of the consequences, but I am not.
I do actively "deny" (I don't like the word because it assumes that God exists...) the Christian God however, in the sense that it can be proven not to exist, at least in a Biblically literal way.
As I often said, what interests me is why people believe in gods, other supernatural entities or events, how this influences other beliefs they might hold as a consequence, and especially how they take decisions in the world we share because of these beliefs...
... like vote for Harper. LoL
"what "God" would like us to do, and how we can determine what that would be."
ReplyDeleteWhat did Jesus say is the most important commandment?
======
"If you're wrong and Allah does exist then you'll be ok because "at least I tried to believe in one God"?"
Unlike Christianity where you can know if you are saved or not, all other other religions, including Islam are a crap-shoot with a person never knowing if s/he has done enough good works. In Islam the only way to be certain of paradise is to be killed while killing infidels.
======
"I know you are afraid of the consequences"
Dude, my salvation is assured. Why would going to heaven scare me?
=====
"what "God" would like us to do, and how we can determine what that would be."
ReplyDeleteWhat did Jesus say is the most important commandment?
The one I remember the most, and consider most relevant is:
Aimez vous les uns les autres comme je vous ai aimés.
Sorry I only know it in French ;)
What's your point?
====================================
"If you're wrong and Allah does exist then you'll be ok because "at least I tried to believe in one God"?"
Unlike Christianity where you can know if you are saved or not, all other other religions, including Islam are a crap-shoot with a person never knowing if s/he has done enough good works. In Islam the only way to be certain of paradise is to be killed while killing infidels.
You miss the point of the question: what if Allah does exist? Do you think that being a believer in the Christian God will help you?
But remember, I was not asking that as a genuine question, because the answer is pointless; it's meant to show you why the answer to that question you had written is 'yes you are wrong':
I think you believe that if you’re wrong and He does exist then you’ll be ok because “at least I tried to be a good person.” Am I wrong?
The point is that for me it's just silly to say such a thing, just like it's silly for you to think about: 'what if Allah does exist?'.
==============================
Dude, my salvation is assured. Why would going to heaven scare me?
100% sure? Impossible... you are, at least slightly, afraid of Hell and project that fear by worrying for others.
“What's your point?”
ReplyDeleteI have two points.
First of all, like all functional atheists, you fail to understand that what you “consider most relevant” is irrelevant. If there is a Creator God, then all that matters is what He considers most relevant.
Second, you said, “We disagree on what "God" would like us to do, and how we can determine what that would be.”
There is no need to disagree because what God would like us to do is spelled out clearly.
“Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. Mark 12:28-30.
You, Hugo, not only don’t keep this commandment, you deliberately ignore it and refuse to keep it.
=======
“100% sure? Impossible... you are, at least slightly, afraid of Hell”
Not in the least. Jesus promises salvation to those who have placed their faith in Him and His promises are absolutely certain and sure.
. A person knows when h/her motives for living have changed from self to God.
. A person knows when s/he wants what God wants.
. A person knows when the most important thing in one’s life is to please our Lord and Saviour
. A person can know Hugo.
That is one of the greatest tragedies of being raised Catholic. You can never be sure about salvation because you can never be sure if you’ve been good enough.
John 6:28,29 - Then they asked Him, what must we do, to do the works God requires? Jesus answered, “The work of God is this, to believe in the one He has sent.”
A person knows when s/he believes in Jesus.
John 5:24 - Jesus said, “I say emphatically that anyone who listens to My message and believes in God who sent me has eternal life and will NEVER be damned for his sins. He has crossed from death into life.”
A person knows when s/he listens to Jesus’ message.
John 8:24 - Jesus said, “For unless you believe that I am the Son of God, the Messiah, you will die in your sins.”
A person knows when s/he believes that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah.
Romans 3:27,28 - Our acquittal is not based on our good deeds, it is based on what Christ has done and our faith in Him. So it is we are saved, by faith in Christ and not by the good things we do.
A person knows when s/he is no longer trying to be saved by being “good enough.”
1st Thessalonians 1:8,9 - The Lord Jesus will bring judgement on those who do not wish to know God and those who reject His plan to save them through our Lord Jesus Christ. They will be punished in everlasting hell, forever separated from the Lord, never to see the glory of His power.
A person knows when s/he hasn’t rejected Jesus’ plan for salvation.
The opposite is also true. You know that you HAVE rejected Jesus’ offer of salvation and you CAN know what the consequence of that action will be.
Thanks for the detailed answer. I will try to focus on one idea though, since it's always the issue when "discussing" with you: you never give good reasons to believe in God in the first place.
ReplyDeleteIf there is a Creator God, then all that matters is what He considers most relevant.
Of course, but when I ask you evidence for that Creator God, you give none. We require faith in Jesus first!
So it boils down to being just your opinion: what God considers most relevant is actually what believers consider most relevant, since I have no way to know what God would actually want, even if you said that...
There is no need to disagree because what God would like us to do is spelled out clearly.
... which is completely false, as you agree that we need to interpret the texts of the Bible. So it is definitely NOT spelled out clearly, and several portions were shown to be just flat out wrong anyway; so you are forced to admit that it's not to be taken literally without thinking.
Second, look around, not all Christians share the same opinions as you, so it contradicts even more that everything is 'spelled out clearly'. No matter what subject, I will always be able to give you an example of a Christian who disagrees with you...
Jesus promises salvation to those who have placed their faith in Him and His promises are absolutely certain and sure.
Because you accept the idea that Jesus is God, then yes you can conclude that his promises are valid. However, this avoids the question: how can you be 100% sure that Jesus is God? How can you consider that faith is a 100% reliable mechanism to attain true beliefs?
...You know that you HAVE rejected Jesus’ offer of salvation and you CAN know what the consequence of that action will be.
You know you HAVE rejected Allah's offer of eternity in paradise and you CAN know the consequence of that action will be.