If Creator God truly does not exist, then any chance for a life of ultimate meaning has been eliminated.
“It’s nearly certain that man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving; that his origin, his growth, his hopes and fears, his loves and his beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms; that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave; that all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of man’s achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins.”
Atheist Bertrand Russell
Either we were created by God with meaning, context and purpose, or there is no significance to our lives save what we invent for ourselves in this life. Without life beyond the grave there is no hope, no life, no purpose, no meaning.
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Your incapacity to come up with purpose and meaning in own life without a god does not prove that your god exists or that other people also require a god to see purpose in their life.
ReplyDeleteSo, in a way, I agree with that:
there is no significance to our lives save what we invent for ourselves in this life
What we invent IS the meaning. Even God was invented by humans so even your own reasons to see purpose is man made. I find that deliciously ironic and funny :)
I would like you to think of this: do you remember of every single moment you spent with your kids, every single intimate moments you had with your life, every single good joke you laughed at... in your entire life? Were all these things that you and other forgot meaningless because you forgot them? Is it only if there is an afterlife during which God might gave you back these memories that they will have value again?
In other words, can't you at least concede that parts of the meaning of life comes from the simple joy of being alive, of being here, now, at this instant that is already the past for me while you read it...?
If Creator God truly does not exist, then any chance for a life of ultimate meaning has been eliminated.
ReplyDeleteI really feel depressed for you if this is honestly what you believe.
The word that you an Hugo skip over is "ultimate" or lasting meaning.
ReplyDeleteIt's somewhat - only somewhat - similar to the difference between secular happiness (based on happiness inducing events) and Christian peace and joy (not based upon anything external but there regardless of circumstance).
If you want to assign that much importance to the word 'ultimate', then there is no ultimate meaning to life in your worldview either. If God created everything and can decide to do anything, ultimately our life is meaningless. He can decide to get rid of us in an instant, erase all your memories, and make you disappear forever. In the real world we live in, if God does not exist, that cannot be the case.
ReplyDeleteYou sure you want to go down the philosophy road?
By the way, there were 4 interrogation marks in my previous comment here. I would expect at least 1 answer... Yes, by saying that it's only the ultimate meaning you care about, I understand that you partially answered them, but if you don't answer yourself, I will be forced to conclude that you agree:
'parts of the meaning of life comes from the simple joy of being alive, of being here, now, at this instant that is already the past for me while you read it'
Agreed or not?
I assure you, I didn't skip over "ultimate." To think there are not larger goals to be pursued outside of pleasing God is really sad. Your aspirations are no more "ultimate" just because you imagine yours to last for eternity. In my view, after all, there is no ultimate pay off for what you or any religious person does that extends beyond their death (or, rather, that will be perceived by the one dying). If you want to get right down to it, you are conflating delusional fantasies with "deep," "ultimate meaning," at least from my vantage point.
ReplyDeleteThere are ultimate goals to be achieved, for good or bad. Many find the pursuit of wealth and material possessions to be worth their time, and while you and I may look down on them for it, it is every bit as valid of a goal as you seeking the Kingdom of God in my view, or my search for the different meanings of life. There are certainly many others, like attaining some level of fame (ironically followed often by a pursuit of privacy), or just simply raising a loving family.
So you both disagree with Russel or you just don't understand what he's saying?
ReplyDeleteHis statement would have to be divided into several parts for me to analyze it. The beginning, which states that humanity is "accidental," is certainly the case. The cynical prognostication that follows, however, is a bit too pessimistic. I think it's more than likely we'll escape our solar system before it dies.
ReplyDeleteAs for the comment as a whole, I think it should be taken in the context of Russel as a philosopher who was a prolific writer. Clearly he felt the drive on some level to achieve, despite the seemingly defeated attitude of this single quote. That is always the difficulty in taking a quote and trying to extrapolate more from it than was ever intended.
Without life beyond the grave there is no hope, no life, no purpose, no meaning.
ReplyDeleteI think you are absolutely right. Being alive is as good as it gets, I'm afraid.
I wish there was a higher meaning, but I don't see one.
ReplyDeleteSo you both disagree with Russel
ReplyDeleteI agree with the quote you posted
or you just don't understand what he's saying?
I certainly don't understand the same thing you do! I guess I am wrong then! ;)