It’s how seculars hold everything together. Finding things to be proud of is how they survive the rigours of life. It might be a talent, or their looks or their education, or intelligence or their wealth or power or position. It may be their possessions or how they’re “greener” than others, but something will be found. Something must be found for a pagan to feel ok about h/herself. Pride is the answer to surviving life.
“God opposes the proud but gives His grace to the humble.”
Hmm. What to do?
Well, for one thing, let atheists and pagans go their own way. They’ve got it all figured out. We however dare not follow. After all, how can we be proud when our Saviour, Lord and character goal, Jesus the Christ was humble? How can we serve ourselves when He served others. How can we be arrogant when we look at Jesus on the cross? As Paul said,
“What do you have that God hasn’t given you? And if everything that you have is from God, why do you act as though it isn’t from God?”
What does humility look like? On the night in which He was betrayed, Jesus, Creator God, The Greatest Conceivable Being, Lord of lords and Kings of kings removed his clothes, wrapped a towel around His waist and washed the feet of His students, including the feet of the one who Jesus knew was just minutes away from betraying Him to death.
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The irony is strong with this one. If you were a bit humble, you would not have written a book and you would not claim that your blog is read by people from all around the world. I doubt you would even write a blog at all. Why don't you write a private journal that only God can know about?
ReplyDeleteHmmm, well, I can see how a book and a blog could come across as prideful. Of course to correctly judge that you would have to know my motives - right?
ReplyDeleteTwo people could be doing the exact same behaviors:
Feeding the hungry
Clothing the poor
Comforting the sick
One might be doing it for the prideful kick that s/he gets while the other one is doing it out of humble love. One might be doing it to earn salvation and the other doing it out of gratefulness for being saved. Neither you nor I can know for sure.
Now, I say in the book why I wrote it - to encourage believers to pick it up a notch.
I made the statement about the blog being read around the world (actually North East Africa has too much going on to bother with such foolishness reading blogs) was to encourage you to make your views known.
And I've said that the blog was nothing more than a way for me to vent.
Almost all those stated reasons are, as you suggest, a lie at some level and they are also true at some level. They're lies in the sense that pride is for me, as it is for everyone, a huge negative. The difference between my pride and the pride of secular people is that I see pride as something capable of destroying me - with nothing of value in return, while pagans, in general, see pride as a plus, as a necessity for healthy living.
If I understand you correctly, I think I agree.
ReplyDeleteWhat you seem to be dismissing though is that secular people can also have the "good" kind of pride. What's the harm in being proud of having done something good just because it's good, anonymously, without any reward?
That's where I find it ironic because in your belief system, there is always a reward. So no matter if you do something after considering that you are saved or before, it does not change anything, there is always a reward that you are expecting. So, in a way, your non-pride is always translated in something equivalent to pride because you find pleasure, hope and comfort in the idea that your choices, or God's choices, will lead you to eternal bliss. That feeling is as close to the pride I mentioned above as it can be.
Not sure if that was clear; oh well, no time for re-reading anyway...
No Hugo. We don’t agree.
ReplyDeletePride:
. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
. the state or feeling of being proud.
. a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem.
. pleasure or satisfaction taken in something done by or belonging to oneself or believed to reflect credit upon oneself: civic pride.
. something that causes a person or persons to be proud: His art collection was the pride of the family.
Do you see the common denominator in all of these? The focus is on self.
Now, compare that to the verse that I quoted in the post:
“What do you have that God hasn’t given you. And if everything you have is from God, why do you act as though you didn’t get it from God?”
Can you see why, for both a Christian and non Christians that we have no reason to feel pride about anything and every reason to give thanks to our Creator for everything in our character or life that’s good.
“All good things and every perfect gift is from above, coming down to us from the Creator of heavenly lights in whom there is no shifting or changing like shadows.”
James 1:17
“What's the harm in being proud of having done something good just because it's good, anonymously, without any reward?”
What’s the harm? The harm is that YOU are taking credit for something that Someone else has done for you - regardless of whether anyone else is aware of what you’ve done.
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“there is always a reward.”
This is perhaps where you get confused. Reward is the wrong, wrong, very wrong word.
Salvation is a gift. An unmerited gift. Unmerited in every way possible that you can think of. Not a reward. Not a reward. A free gift based entirely upon the unmerited Grace of God. There is nothing in me or about me that warrants my salvation.
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“that your choices, or God's choices,”
NOT my choices!!! God’s choice that is influenced by NOTHING outside Himself. That is surely no reason for anything close to pride on my part.
You, Hugo, need pride to survive life.
I do not.
And it’s a false pride since anything good in you is also a gift from God, a gift that you refuse to acknowledge.
So you still don't believe me when I say that I don't believe God exists... You are really incapable of grasping this idea. It's fascinating really!
ReplyDeleteIf you don't understand why I reply this; read your comment again but with the assumption that God does not exist. Oh wait... you cannot do that. You are incapable of even tentatively putting God aside for 1 second to think about anything.
Moreover, no matter the word you use, you do think that you'll get a reward by going to Heaven. I don't see a problem with you saying that it's not a reward because you don't deserve it. I don't see a problem with you saying that God is blessing you with this undeserved gift. It does not change anything. You are scared of this place called Hell and feel intensively happy and satisfied that you found a way to avoid it. Actually no, that is still not perfectly correct you will say, because you did not do anything, the magic Holy Spirit that dwels inside you does the job so you feel blessed that this spooky ghost does that into you. You are so lucky. Oh no wait, it's not luck, it's being blessed. My bad again...
And now what? You will say that I can laugh my way into Hell but not out of it?
Look, I know of several people who escaped this God virus you are suffering from, and that's the thing they cannot escape easily. Even after stopping to believe in a magic daddy in the sky they still fear that there is this terrible place they will go to if they made the wrong choices. You are saying you don't fear Hell but the way you write completely contradicts it, because you believe Hell is real in the first place.
So, yes, going back to the original idea, it is a reward. You get the reward of not going to Hell. You get the reward of going to Heaven, to experience what's best. You consider that you were once lost, and now you are saved. The consequence: Heaven. Use the words you want, it does not change anything. It's a reward for becoming a true Christian.
Did your conversion to Christianity change anything or not?
If you say no, then you don't have free will and you don't even believe in what God is supposed to have given us. If you say yes, then you admit that your choice yields a positive consequence, a REWARD.
Put up or shut up: Did your conversion to Christianity change anything or not?
"Put up or shut up?"
ReplyDeleteHehe - you’re funny Hugo. Sometimes I can’t help but like you.
Hey, have you ever listened to "Thunder on the Mountain" by Bob Dylan? You should listen to it while you read this. Pick the one with him wearing a cowboy hat.
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Anyhow, “You are incapable of even tentatively putting God aside for 1 second to think about anything.”
That’s like saying, “Pretend for a second that your wife doesn’t exist.” I suppose I could do it but why bother?
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“Moreover, no matter the word you use, you do think that you'll get a reward by going to Heaven.”
To me the difference in definitions is important. It’s what distinguishes Christianity from every other religion or philosophy on the face of the earth.
Reward: something given or received in return or recompense for service, merit, hardship,
Gift: something bestowed onto the recipient without its being earned
Like I said, the concept of Grace or unmerited favour is something that is foreign to human nature. It's what makes Creator God different from every single man-made god in the whole world. It's one of the reasons that you can't accept His offer of salvation. Your pride and arrogance won't allow you to share the spot-light; not even with your Creator.
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"You are scared of this place called Hell and feel intensively happy and satisfied that you found a way to avoid it.”
Surely you’re not going to suggest that avoiding eternity in hell is something wrong, bad or in some way defective.
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“Actually no, that is still not perfectly correct you will say, because you did not do anything, the magic Holy Spirit that dwels inside you does the job so you feel blessed that this spooky ghost does that into you. You are so lucky. Oh no wait, it's not luck, it's being blessed. My bad again...”
Don’t get down on yourself because you’re wrong over and over again, Hugo. The good part is that you’re able to correct yourself. Clap Clap, Cheer, Cheer, Whistle, Whistle!
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“You will say that I can laugh my way into Hell but not out of it?”
No need. Look up! You said it.
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“they still fear that there is this terrible place they will go to if they made the wrong choices.”
And well they should. There is no fate worse - that I can think of anyhow.
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“You are saying you don't fear Hell but the way you write completely contradicts it, because you believe Hell is real in the first place.”
I believe that the Federal Penitentiary a couple k's down the road is real too, but I don’t have any reason to fear going there either.
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“You consider that you were once lost, and now you are saved.”
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me. Amen brother.
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"Put up or shut up: Did your conversion to Christianity change anything or not?”
I’m sorry. I can’t help it. That just makes me laugh. Put up or shut up. That’s good. The last guy that said that to me, about 35 years ago, lost two front teeth and almost had his left eyeball pop out. Yes Hugo, my conversion to become a follower of Jesus has changed everything. I feel no need to hurt you. And you can interpret that however you want, ‘cause I gotta tell you, I can’t follow what point you’re trying to make when I’m smiling this big. "Put up or shut up." That's good. May God Bless you, son.
Oh ym you are really a fucking dumbass; it’s insane. There are several points that you obviously don’t get and, once again, I don’t have time to go through all of them…
ReplyDeleteFirst, you still don’t understand that I don’t believe your God exist, at all. You don’t get this. You write that I refuse the offer of salvation. That does not make sense. Your skills in logic and philosophy are terrible. You need to learn how arguments are built.
Second, yes definitions are always important, but no, you are getting a reward. Ok, don’t call it a reward if you want, but the fact is that your choice to accept Christianity as the one and only true religion has some consequences. One of these consequences is eternal bliss, while all other fuckers like me, according to you, deserve nothing more than to rot in the worst place ever. But don’t worry, I am not worried one second about that, and I am actually less worried than you about that. That’s the point. You, on the other hand, are not able to see this. You are shit scared of Hell. People you know personally will go there according to you… That makes you scared like little kids who think that monsters eat other kids. Grow up you little dude…
Third, no, the concept of grace is not fancy, special, or hard to understand. It’s part of the one religion you know, and just like any other religion, yours has some particularities that are not shared. You still share a lot of beliefs but prefer to focus on the few original magic things that you believe in, while other religions just believe in evil magic pagan things. Again, grow up, magic does not exist you fool.
Fourth, I know you were violent in the past. It’s good to know that your religion made you change. It sucks that you needed to believe in a magic daddy to change though. I guess not everybody is able to value human lives for what they are. They need a religion to tell them that everything sucks but that if they accept his or that, or do this or that, then, meh, it’s not that bad after all. Great. Good for you… you are just too simple minded to think for yourself. Thank god religion exists for idiots like you.
Finally, that makes me laugh too, everything concerning your religion makes me laugh. However, what I don’t find funny is what you say about others, morality and science. That’s why I get so annoyed sometimes when I read your blog. You pretend you are humble but are arrogant enough to think you have a better knowledge of morality than any other human being because your morality is God’s morality; you think you know biology better than biologist because they are evil atheist who want to push an agenda, evolution is just too complicated for you to grasp, the numbers don’t add up in your mind; you think you know physics better than physicist when you don’t even understand basic math, a singularity makes no sense to you, it has no meaning, you are just not properly trained to discuss it; you think you know what others think when you cannot even anticipate any answers I make or any ideas I truly believe in.
Looks like I am starting to break my “being nice to you” rule, right?
Well guess what, it’s because I know you more than you know me that I wrote these lines like that. What does that mean? It means that I know that while reading this, you were thrilled. You were happy and smiling at the fact that the tone was obviously angry and insulting, because that’s another thing that your religion taught you: its’ good to be persecuted, it proves you right. I don’t even think half of what I just wrote. It was just a tiny game done on a quiet Tuesday night. Did you see that one coming? Probably not; just like the fake conversion you naively believed a few months ago…
“. . . while all other fuckers like me, according to you,”
ReplyDeleteWrong - according to Jesus.
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“You are shit scared of Hell.”
Why would I be. I thought you said you understood the concept of Grace. And yet you keep talking as though you haven’t got a clue. Why do you do that?
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“ People you know personally will go there according to you…”
Wrong - according to Jesus. You're going to hell doesn’t make me scared - just sad.
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“. . . grace is part of the one religion you know, and just like any other religion, yours has some particularities that are not shared.”
Yes, I know. Christianity like all other religions share many points, like ethics / morals.
The difference regarding the method of salvation however is stark - the way of Jesus is diametrically opposed to every other religion on earth.
Only Jesus offers forgiveness of sins through faith in His work of Grace while all other religions demand works in order to please God.
And that is what you can’t get. That’s why you keep saying that I can’t know for sure if I’m saved.
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“Thank god religion exists for idiots like you.”
Thank God that HE exists for idiots like me.
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“everything concerning your religion makes me laugh.”
Everything?
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“. . . you have a better knowledge of morality than any other human being because your morality is God’s morality;”
Wrong - I think we all have access to the very same standard of morality. It’s just that some, like you, choose to reject that standard.
In that case, who is more arrogant? Me for living by a standard that I consider greater than my own, or you, for thinking your standard of morality is superior to that of your Creator’s?
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“ you cannot even anticipate any answers I make or any ideas I truly believe in.”
Hugo - read these next few lines and then tell me how anyone could anticipate your next thought.
“Looks like I am starting to break my “being nice to you” rule, right?”
“it’s because I know you more than you know me that I wrote these lines like that.”
“What does that mean?”
“I don’t even think half of what I just wrote.”
“Did you see that one coming?
You're sounding slightly insane, Hugo.
If your girlfriend wisely decided to not move to SF with you, I understand. That's hard. Nobody likes to be dumped. But her decision isn't my fault.
Oh wow... you really replied to that comment as if I meant what I wrote?
ReplyDeleteThat's really hilarious but I am also sorry that you did not get that it was a joke...
The point was that I know that by insulting you I am actually making you smile, making you happy and satisfied. I know it does not affecting you one second. That's why I purposely wrote stupid things and random insults.
Then, at the end, I stated what I had just done in order to surprise you a bit and tell you that I knew you were going to be gullible enough to actually believe it while reading.
I did write that I did not think half of what I had just written; you did not understand that?