Store up for yourselves treasures in Heaven
where moth and rust cannot destroy and thieves cannot break in and steal

Monday, September 3, 2012

Atheists and Life After Death


An atheist wrote, “I see no reason to believe that your view on a life after death is accurate. Why believe that there is such a thing as Heaven?”

I replied that the life of Jesus and His resurrection were very good reasons to take a serious look at life beyond the grave. You see, there are historical events that don't make any sense if Jesus didn't rise from the dead. Here are a few examples:
First of all, the first-hand accounts, based upon those who lived with Jesus and were witnesses to His resurrection are extremely dependable as we measure works of antiquity. The more copies that we have and the closer the copies have been dated to the original the better we're able to say that the copies accurately reflect the originals. If documents 1,500 years removed from their originals are considered dependable, how much more documents 50 or 15 or even 5 years removed from the originals? Having said that:
. The number of copies in existence show beyond doubt that the documents lack corruption and that they do not contain crucial errors.
. They show that copies were made carefully and in close succession.
. The immediacy of the written record is absolutely vital to authenticating the documents as trustworthy. That is why the New Testament documents are far, far superior to any other texts of the time.

I need to say up front that those atheists who say that the Biblical Jesus of Nazareth didn't exist, themselves exist on the fringes of reality along with those who deny the Jewish Holocaust.

Beside that, we need to ask ourselves, if the facts of Jesus life, death and resurrection, as we have them aren’t true, how do we explain the fact that Josephus, Matthew, Tacitus, Mark, Lucian of Samosata, Dr. Luke, Mara Bar-Serapion, John, The Babylonian Talmud and John Dominic Crossan of the “Jesus Seminar” among many others all attest that Jesus’ crucifixion is historical fact? Atheists are forever complaining about a lack of extra Biblical testimony. Again, that type of complaint can only come from a point of profound ignorance or a deliberate attempt to distort the truth. Even Matthew, Mark, Luke and John whose documents have been included in the Bible, all of these individuals represent valid, independent verification to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.

If Jesus didn’t die on the cross, why would these historians and scholars write that He did? Why would they simply invent these stories? There was/is absolutely nothing of earthly value to be gained by going along with or agreeing with the lie that atheists suppose these documents to be.

Don't just rush over this. Think about it! If the New Testament documents are not reliable, true and accurate:
. Why do we have multiple, independent, extra Biblical sources attesting to the risen Jesus?
. Why do we have virtually unanimous modern historical scholarship agreeing that the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive after His death on the cross.
. Why would atheist historian and New Testament critic Gerd Ludemann say, “It may be taken as historically certain that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’ death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ.”
. Why would atheist historian Paula Fredriksen say, “I don’t know what they saw, but as a historian I know they believed they saw Jesus.”
. Why would highly critical New Testament scholar Rudolf Bultmann agree that historical criticism can establish “the fact that the first disciples came to believe in the resurrection and that they thought they had seen the risen Jesus."
. If Jesus’ resurrection was a lie, and if her believing Peter’s lie was causing his wife’s torturous death, why would the apostle Peter allow his wife to be crucified while he was forced to watch? All Peter had to do to save both of them from a torturous death was to tell the authorities that it was all a hoax. All he had to do was point to where the dead body of Jesus lay. All he had to do was admit to a conspiracy (atheists are deep believers in conspiracies). But he couldn’t do that, for the truth was and is that Jesus rose from the dead and is alive forevermore.

Without the resurrection being historical fact, none of this makes sense. Why would even the enemies of Christianity affirm the historical facts regarding the life, death and resurrection of Jesus if the evidence isn’t accurate and compelling?

I mean, think about it. If Jesus didn’t rise from the dead:
. Why would all the disciples, plus hundreds and hundreds of others believe that they saw Him alive?
. Why would they say that they spoke with Him? . Why would they say that they ate with Him at various times and various places? . If none of that is true, why would they be willing to die for making up the lie of seeing Jesus alive? There was absolutely nothing of earthly value to be gained, and everything to lose (and in a pretty unpleasant manner) by concocting the supposed lies about Jesus life, death and resurrection.

Remember these people didn’t believe the lies that someone else told. Over the centuries many people have died for believing another person's lies. But if these people died for a lie, it was their lie! They died for saying they saw Jesus alive again after His death. Without the resurrection being historical fact, their willingness to die for the “truth” doesn’t make any sense.
If Jesus didn’t rise from the dead:. Why do we have Paul’s testimony about His encounter with Jesus and why do we have his radical transformation in character from a persecutor of the Church and a killer of Christians, to the greatest missionary that the Christian Church has ever seen? Remember, Paul was a rabid sceptic regarding Jesus when Jesus appeared to him. Paul was an enemy of the Christianity when Jesus appeared to him. This is not like most conversions whereby the person reads or hears something that persuades h/her to change. Paul’s evidence for the risen Jesus was first hand and so convincing that he endured years of hardship, persecution and rejection for proclaiming the risen Lord, before finally being beheaded by Nero in 64AD.

By the way, Paul, who is responsible for most of the New Testament documents obviously completed his writings prior to his death so his accounts are very, very early. His creed from 1st Corinthians 15 is dated to around 5 years after Jesus' death and resurrection. A creed documenting the worship of Jesus as God, obviously already well established.

Paul went from a brilliant and educated man of stature and adulation in the Jewish religious community, someone at the top of his game, to basically a bum on the run. All because Jesus personally appeared to Paul and demanded his allegiance. As Paul himself said, “If Jesus isn't resurrected from the dead, we who believe are to be pitied as fools for enduring such hardship and death.”

Without the resurrection being historical fact, this change in Paul’s character doesn’t make any sense. He had absolutely nothing of earthly value to gain, and everything to lose by concocting a story of meeting Jesus while on His way to persecute the Church.

If Jesus didn’t rise from the dead:
. Why in the world would Jesus’ brothers James and Jude (both sceptics who refused to believe without empirical evidence) go to their deaths proclaiming that Jesus had indeed risen from the dead?
. Why would they claim that they had seen Him?
. Why would they write documents urging other women and men to remain firm in their faith in Jesus even under pain of death?. Why would they confess that Jesus, their brother whom they formerly despised and mocked, is the Lord God, Messiah?

Think about it! What would it take for you to believe that your brother was God Incarnate? For me it would take nothing less than a predicted death and physical resurrection from the grave actually happening.

James and Jude who each have a letter included in the New Testament were sceptics. And for good reason. Until His ministry began, Jesus was nothing more than their big brother. A nice guy? Sure. At the very least He stuck around and took care of the family after their dad died. To be honest though, the older He got the more embarrassing Jesus became to the family. “Would you please shut up about all this stuff about you being God?” Even His mother couldn't get Him to just come home and be quite. And then, what they had originally believed about Jesus being just this guy, well, it all started to come apart. The manipulation of matter / energy is not supposed to be possible. But He seemed to be doing it. Like all good sceptics, James and Jude were able to nurse their doubts for awhile, until – well, until He got arrested. After the crucifixion, their doubts had to give way to self-honesty. Empirical evidence, undeniable evidence forced them to change their minds. Dead people do not naturally come alive again. So there they were, a month after their Brother was murdered, saying that they'd changed their minds and I mean they had really changed their minds. Jesus' brothers, James and Jude put their lives on the line to affirm their new understanding of what their brother had been teaching. Their conversions were a drastic change from thinking their Brother was insane. They weren't alone. Within a month of His death, we have His whole family, mother, brothers, sisters all gathered together with other believers. People who had once doubted Jesus, were now affirming the truth of who He claimed to be.

Thomas is often cited as the disciple who needed solid evidence for the resurrection, but if you pay attention to the Gospel accounts, you'll see that every single one of Jesus' closest followers required hard evidence before they were convinced, not just that Jesus was God incarnate, but that He had indeed risen from the dead, just as He had predicted. These were not gullible easily led men and women. These were people, each and every one of them individuals who required empirical evidence before they would, before they could believe. Even in the last chapter of John we have John describing how he and the other disciples, who'd been out fishing all night, crowded around the resurrected Jesus who was frying fish over a fire on the shore of the lake. And he writes, “None of us dared ask, “Who are you?” because we knew it was the Lord. This was now the third time Jesus appeared to us,” John 21. Can you hear how tentative they were? They could just barely grasp the truth of something that simply does not happen by natural means.

Without the power of Creator God, dead people do not come alive again. Not after being crucified, dying, being embalmed in 75 pounds of spices etc. and buried in an ice cold tomb. Yet a few weeks later, these same people were unstoppable witnesses to the fact of Jesus rising from the dead along with His message of forgiveness of sins.

Without the resurrection being historical fact, this change in the beliefs of Jesus’ siblings and disciples doesn’t make any sense. They had absolutely nothing of earthly value to gain and everything to lose if what they said about Jesus appearing to them after His death was not true.

Remember, these people were sceptics at the time that Jesus appeared to them. Why would they become His followers if His resurrection (which in my thinking even trumps walking on water) wasn't historical fact?

If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, why was the tomb empty? Why did enemies of Jesus and enemies of His message agree that the tomb was empty? If the enemies of Jesus took the body to keep the disciples from stealing it, why not just produce it and put an end to the story? After all, this took place right in Jerusalem, the scene of the murder.

These are historical facts for which the only logical answer is the factual reality of Jesus’ life, death and resurrection as described by the writers of these documents. David Hume is recorded as saying, re: miracles, “No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavours to establish.”

Not just the existence of this mathematically precise, life sustaining, moral universe, that came into being out of literally nothing material, but Jesus' appearances after His crucifixion, the fact of the empty tomb, the radical change in character of His disciples, the conversion of sceptics Paul and Jesus' family, and the existence of the Christian Church and 3,000 converts on the first day of preaching by the disciples all fit Hume's conditions.

These historical event demand and explanation and the best explanation, the most reasonable explanation (unless you have an atheist world-view to protect) is that Jesus the Christ was who He claimed to be and did indeed die via Roman execution, was buried as predicted in a rich man's grave and rose physically from the dead only to appear to hundreds and hundreds of individuals before returning to His throne in heaven. And if those event are true then it is also highly likely that Jesus will return as predicted as a time when “every knee will bow in submission and every tongue will confess that Jesus is King of kings, Lord of lords, Creator of Heaven and earth.

Why would anyone in their right minds set themselves up as enemies of such a Power, when an offer of peace and forgiveness is being made to them right this very moment?

15 comments:

  1. Most, if not all, of what you wrote here (or copy/pasted since nothing seems new) is irrelevant because you don't understand that the problem is not whether people in Jesus time believed what they wrote about or not. The same is true for the earliest followers, writers, believers, and so on: nobody claims that they were lying.

    What skeptics like me say is that we see no reason to believe that what they believed is true.

    Again, why believe their stories? I believe that they believed them, but I see no reason to think they were real and literally true from start to finish... you oversimplify the whole thing by putting it in a 'black or white' thing were it's either all true and nobody lied, or they all knew it was a lie and they all faked it.

    Again, not enough time to go line by line; took me long enough just to read the thing..................

    ReplyDelete
  2. "Most, if not all, of what you wrote here (or copy/pasted since nothing seems new"

    What? I'm only allowed to post something once?
    =====
    "What skeptics like me say is that we see no reason to believe that what they believed is true."

    Sad that you think it's your choice. I used to believe (or - not believe) the same thing. eg. Matthew 13:9-11
    =====
    "Again, why believe their stories?"

    Because the events they describe actually took place.
    . The tomb was empty
    . The disciples really did turn from sceptical cowards into virtually fearless witnesses
    . The sceptic Paul really did change from someone who tortured and killed Christians to someone who preached Jesus' resurrection and the forgiveness of sins and was killed for what he preached.
    . The Christian Church really did become an world changing entity.

    These are historical events that are not just recorded in documents that were later compiled into what we now call the New Testament.
    =====
    "it's either all true and nobody lied,"

    Well, they either knew they were lying or they didn't.


    ReplyDelete
  3. From other post...

    exactly - how hard is it for a Biblical scholar like you to give me two or three glaring contradictions in the gospels?

    First of all, I insist that it is completely irrelevant. The fact that there are contradictions just reduces the credibility of the fantastic stories even more.

    Second, I gave examples above; why don't you tell me which ones are right and which ones are wrong?

    Third, since you claim in the more recent post that the resurrection is a clear historical event. What about these points found on http://skepticsannotatedbible.com:

    -Who buried Jesus?
    -Was the tomb opened or closed when the women arrived?
    -Were the men or angels inside or outside the tomb when the women arrived?
    -Who did the women see at the tomb?
    -Did the women immediately tell the disciples?
    -How many women came to the sepulchre?

    What? I'm only allowed to post something once?

    You use a lot of snark but I was just pointing out that not much is new in what you wrote. It seems to me that you avoid direct discussion and question answering. Instead, you copy/paste long parts of text that are out-of-scope.

    "Again, why believe their stories?"

    Because the events they describe actually took place.


    Some of them probably did. That's missing the point. How can you know that all the magical stuff really happen? Why believe what a book tells you about magical stuff? Why do you believe the people who wrote these things? They believed it for sure, but they also believed in a bunch of things that are just absurd.

    The tomb was empty

    Have you seen the movie The Prestige?

    The disciples really did turn from sceptical cowards into virtually fearless witnesses.
    The sceptic Paul really did change from someone who tortured and killed Christians to someone who preached Jesus' resurrection and the forgiveness of sins and was killed for what he preached.


    Makes sense. They really believed this stuff.


    These are historical events that are not just recorded in documents that were later compiled into what we now call the New Testament.

    You can repeat that as often as you want. It does not change the credibility of anything that's in it...

    Well, they either knew they were lying or they didn't.

    They did not! They were not lying!
    That's the point.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I think your problem, and that of many other atheists is that you folks simply don't understand the definition of the word, “contradiction.”

    . If one writer said, “ONLY Mary was at the tomb,” and another writer said, “There were five women at the tomb,” THAT would be a contradiction. But that's not what happens. One writer emphasizes Mary while another mentions that she was not alone.

    . If one writer said, “there was ONLY one angel and he was outside / inside the tomb,” while another writer talks about three angels (one out and two in), THAT would be a contradiction. But that is not what happens.

    Your main point however is taken. It doesn't matter how many questions I answered. Nothing would be good enough for you because you've decided that's your excuse. You don't do it in other parts of your life, but when it comes to your relationship with your Creator, there can be no room for speculation. Every question must be answered. And that, actually is a very good way to ensure that you'll never need to confront the reality of God until your standing before Him at Judgement.

    Just think! You can give yourself anywhere from another minute to maybe sixty more years of doing it your way. What a trade! Eternity is lost but a few decades here are completely yours. Three cheers for Hugo.
    =====
    "you avoid direct discussion and question answering."

    I'm saying, here are the historical events and the best explanation for these events are the historical documents that describe them. Jesus rose, by supernatural means from the dead. If there was a better explanation than Jesus' resurrection there wouldn't be a Christian religion. We already have the miracle of a natural universe coming into being out of literally nothing natural, material. If that miracle can happen then so can this.

    What atheists say is that magic made a universe but there was no magician.
    =====
    "Why do you believe the people who wrote these things?"

    Because those people knew better. They knew that virgins don't get pregnant; that people crippled from birth don't get better in an instant by a spoken word; that a normal man doesn't command the weather to change and they certainly knew that dead people don't rise to life by natural means. They weren't idiots. They knew better and they could come up with no other explanation than the fact that Jesus was exactly who He said He is.
    -----
    The Prestige?"

    No I haven't. Should I?
    -----
    "Makes sense. They really believed this stuff."

    And why is the question. What's your explanation?


    ReplyDelete
  5. I think your problem, and that of many other atheists is that you folks simply don't understand the definition of the word, “contradiction.”

    Yes I know exactly what you mean actually. That's why I did not pick random examples because I have seen a few examples at http://skepticsannotatedbible.com that are not convincing. For instance, I did not use the example of 'Who carried Jesus' cross' because I remembered that one version mentions how somebody else helped Jesus carrying it. So saying that he carried it is fine, just like saying that someone else did it is fine.

    ...but that's not the case with the other examples...

    If one writer said, “there was ONLY one angel and he was outside / inside the tomb,” while another writer talks about three angels (one out and two in), THAT would be a contradiction. But that is not what happens.

    It is exatly what happens...

    ReplyDelete
  6. It is exactly what happens...

    From Mathew 28:

    After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

    2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

    5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.”

    8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.


    What do we get from this? The TWO Mary went together to the tomb and met with ONE angel.

    From Luke 24:

    On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ” 8 Then they remembered his words.

    9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.


    What do we get from this? The TWO Mary AND Joanna went together to the tomb and met with TWO angels. Oh and apparently the "violent" earthquake was not violent enough to be worth mentioning in this version.

    Just details right?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Your main point however is taken. It doesn't matter how many questions I answered. Nothing would be good enough for you because you've decided that's your excuse. You don't do it in other parts of your life [...]

    No that's actually the complete opposite. It is precisely because I do the same, in all parts of my life, that I don't believe these stories! It's for the same reason that I insist that the contradictions don't change anything because the stories are just magical stuff after magical stuff, and I see no reason to believe these magical things to be real over any other magical thing. At the same time, the contradictions are relevant because it just help confirming that these stories are made up.

    but when it comes to your relationship with your Creator, there can be no room for speculation. Every question must be answered. And that, actually is a very good way to ensure that you'll never need to confront the reality of God until your standing before Him at Judgement.

    Prove to me that there is a Judgement, with a big J, coming. Can you?
    No.
    Because the only thing you can say is: look at this book that I I believe in! The people who wrote it, translated it and carried it over the years believe it too. It must be true.
    No. That's not convincing. That's just telling a story.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Just think!

    Thanks for implying that I don't think.
    It's easy for me to the say the same you know. Look at the examples above. Who is the one who did not think this through?

    I'm saying, here are the historical events

    Stop lying to yourself. The historical events are not the miracles. The historical events are 'people believed these things and wrote about it'. THAT is history.

    ...and the best explanation for these events are the historical documents that describe them. Jesus rose, by supernatural means from the dead. If there was a better explanation than Jesus' resurrection there wouldn't be a Christian religion.

    By the same logic, should we believe that all religions accurately described what happened to their ancestors?

    The best explanation is actually what I just wrote: historical events describe the life AND beliefs of the people of the past. What they believed is not proven true by the fact that their stories survive the test of time.

    We already have the miracle of a natural universe coming into being out of literally nothing natural, material. If that miracle can happen then so can this.

    What atheists say is that magic made a universe but there was no magician.


    That's illogical but you refuse to discuss it, so it's out-of-scope for this thread...

    "Why do you believe the people who wrote these things?"

    Because those people knew better. [...] They weren't idiots. They knew better and they could come up with no other explanation than the fact that Jesus was exactly who He said He is.


    Why do you keep repeating this? I told you that I believe they believed. I don't think they were stupid (unlike YOU who think that Atheists are stupid, thank you very much).

    The fact that they believed is not an indication that they were right. We know, for sure, that they were wrong about a bunch of things. They had absolutely no knowledge of cosmology, chemistry, evolutionary biology, atomic theory, germ theory, etc.... Why would they be right regarding simple miracle events?

    ReplyDelete
  9. The Prestige?"
    No I haven't. Should I?


    Yes it's a good movie from what I remember. What I was thinking about is the twist at the end, which I should not ruin for you if you take the time to watch it. It's just an example of how we can be deceived, and how it's safer to say 'I don't know' when things appear strange, instead of 'OMG it's a miracle!'. The trick shown in the Prestige could well have been the same used by Jesus... It's unlikely I think but nobody could ever prove it nor disprove it. That's the point.

    "Makes sense. They really believed this stuff."

    And why is the question. What's your explanation?


    There are tons of reasons and we will never know for sure. First, all these people were raised in a world completely different from ours. They believed in a lot of magical stuff and the world was extremely mysterious to them, in a completely different ways than the world is mysterious to us.

    They did not know what the Sun or the Moon were; they looked like gods chasing each other in the sky. They did not know why people got sick; it looked like demons possessing them. They had no formal education and were dying very young; they had stories of their forefathers that were attempting to explain all these things instead. Is it really that surprising then that if something crazy happened to them, they would yell 'magic!' or 'god did it!', instead of 'wait, something is strange here, let's investigate more'...

    Thanks for taking the time to read, if you did. Even though you seem very combative in your comments (hard to tell from text though obviously), I hope you can understand that I am not. For me, discussing these things is interesting because they are entertaining, nothing more. For you it is really involving because you changed your entire life based on these beliefs. I thus understand that you react strongly when challenged

    I won't be able to write that much for a while. I had some spare time this morning but I am now starting a crazy week... Plus it's really not a productive way to spend my time when you think about it. I just spent 1.5 hours reading and writing this stuff. What a long time for almost nothing after all... I did not even get to address the whole separate issue of 'material stuff coming from nothing' that you caricature and dismiss without proper logical analysis. Next time maybe!

    Take care,
    Hugo

    ReplyDelete
  10. Ok, well, I won't bother addressing what you missed. Have a good day.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Why not? I have time to read; that's fast. :)

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  12. Matthew's account doesn't say ONLY the two Mary's went and no one else went.

    Can't you see that?

    For whatever the author's reasons, he focused on the fact that these two women went to the tomb early in the morning. It wasn't as important to him that other women also went. Mary Magdalene and Jesus' aunt Mary were important. That's his prerogative. Yes?

    As to the earthquake, that seemed important to Matthew. He is also the only one who mentions the one at Jesus' death. So what? Can't an author do that? Do you think that you and I see every detail of life with equal importance?

    Matthew is also the only one who tells about the posting of the guard.

    As to the angel, Mathew does not say, “ONLY ONE ANGEL came down. If he had it would contradict the two angels in Luke's account.

    The most important thing though Hugo, is that you miss the main point – completely miss it!

    Jesus was not there!

    He was risen from the dead.

    Everything up to that point is hyper factual for you – so factual that you can't distinguish between varying accounts and contradictions.

    And when it comes to the most important event in all of history, to you it's like they never even wrote about it. All four accounts mention that one historical fact and you miss it completely.

    It's like getting bogged down in two accounts of J.F.K's assassination and completely miss that the President was shot in the head.

    You atheists are so focused on preserving your world-view that you miss the forest for the trees.

    ReplyDelete

  13. True, Matthew does not say 'only' and the 'others' are not named, well except one, so they probably don't matter. That's a good example of why the Skeptic Annotated Bible pushes it too far sometimes.

    The earthquake, 2 vs 1 angel, and stone being rolled after/before make a bigger different though; but I guess the importance is subjective, as you mentioned. Very good point.

    Then, we have Jesus not being there. Well yes of course that's what matters, but jumping to 'he was risen from the dead' is quite a stretch. Saying that it's the most important even in all of history is even more of a stretch, and pretending that I miss it is a pure lie, as I mentioned it before...

    The main point thus remains: why believe this story?

    To use the JFK parallel, if the story went on to say that green blood came out of his head, because he was an alien, and that the media tried to cover it up by altering all pictures and movies, would you believe it? What if eye witnesses testified that the blood really was green; would you believe it?

    I think we would be justified not to. I would understand that the people there believe it; I would not accuse them of lying, but they would certainly be in shocked, confused, and perhaps influenced by other people around them telling the same thing. When asked, they might realize that they did not really see the blood after all. We have hundreds of examples like this happening every day. Claiming that a few lines of text in old books are more reliable is what I really don't understand.

    Finally, I don't have any world-view to preserve, but you do, and that's probably why you throw insults back at the "evil other side" when it's attacked. That might be why you concluded your comment with a snark again, an insult directed at 'atheists' as a whole...

    Did I just waste more time writing here? Dam.... if there is one thing I need to improve it's that! :-)

    Watch the Prestige! Otherwise I will ruin the punch for you just to prove a point, hehehe.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Well, you probably should tell me the ending. We don't have Netflix and only rent less than a handful of movies a year so that's not likely going to be one of them.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Aw too bad... the twist is pretty simple anyway.

    The main character, a magician who is able to make himself "disappear", and his devoted assistant, are actually twins. They are able to scam even their own wife, well one of the two because the character has a wife and a mistress, which makes sense at the end since one brother likes the wife more, the other the mistress more...

    Anyway, before you say something like: 'are you suggesting that Jesus had a twin, that's so stupid, you atheists are so dumb that you would prefer to believe anything but be accountable to your creator!'

    No, I don't think this is what happened to Jesus, but the point is that we cannot know, and it is more likely that there is some sort of explanation like this one, rather than the typical 'God did it using magic'.

    What's interesting is that this is probably what you think of most miracles of other religions, but for some reason you trust the people who wrote the Christians stories more.

    ReplyDelete