I said yesterday that corruption in North America was accepted, applauded and encouraged. Atheists of course, those who don’t feel corrupt for the same reason that fish don’t feel wet could not believe what they were hearing.
“Corruption? What corruption?”
. We are so corrupt that marriages, rather than being healed and restored are simply given up on lest “one of the parents be killed.” That's what one atheist said is the alternative to divorce - murder.
. We are so corrupt that the child porn business is a multi BILLION dollar a year business
. We are so corrupt that addictions (you know them better as diversions, distractions, dependencies) like eating, relationships, work, cleaning, fitness, busy - ness (Carl Jung said, “Busyness is not of the devil, busyness IS the devil) and more are signs of how emotionally twisted we are. The more we reject God the more we depend on “things” including mood altering drugs to make us forget.
“Corruption? What corruption?”
Only 50 years ago people were genuinely shocked to find corruption in a businessman or government official. Now we expect it. Trust is at an all time low and for good reason. Corruption is here by popular demand and it’s here to stay.
"An evil is going to come upon you that you won't be able to charm away."
Of course, atheists don’t call it corruption. They call it creative honesty or honesty that’s relative to the situation. How did we get to this situation? All society needed was for enough people to move away from God and an objective moral standard, enough people to reach a critical mass of moral relativity and corruption was given the green light. Anyone remember, “Look out for #1"? That’s what British Petroleum was doing in the Gulf of Mexico. Looking out for their own interests. It's what's expected. It's the norm.
Corruption? What corruption?
A person has to be pretty naive to not see that the exponential increase in corruption at all levels of government and business has been a direct result of the “create your own morality” movement of which atheists are active members. Remember, atheists? Honesty is relative to the situation? Remember, how hard you guys worked just a couple posts ago to find situations where honesty wasn’t the best option?
Corruption? What corruption?
400,000,000 (that's million!) children live each day without access to clean drinking water. It would take a one time infusion of about 14 billion dollars to remedy that situation. How could we ever afford that? Right? Can't do it.
Instead each year in North America we’ll spend:
. 350 billion dollars on Christmas presents
. 22 billion dollars renting videos and DVD’s (this does not include attending movie theatres.
. 95 billion making our lawns and gardens greener, including gnomes and bird baths
. 389 billion on restaurant meals including 10 billion on fast food
. 24 billion on salty snacks
. 16 billion on chocolate
. 5 billion on anti-aging creams
. 10 billion on mother’s day flowers and gifts
. 30 billion on pornography
. 50 billion on lottery tickets
. 50 billion on illegal gambling
. 775 billion on recreation
So what if kids die from not enough food or clean drinking water?
Corruption? What corruption?
Atheists can preach collective morality all they want but when push comes to shove we’re all in it for ourselves. How else do atheists explain consistently doing those things they know to be bad for the collective - lying to themselves and others being just one small example?
Forget the global community. The atheist motto is:
Hear no evil
See no evil
Atheism is much easier to believe if you live under the delusion that we're evolving onward and upward.
Each individual atheist believes, s/he really believes that the problems of the world lie at the feet of everybody else.
When it comes to avoiding charges of human corruption, the atheist’s community becomes a community of one.
Corruption? What corruption?
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Atheists can preach collective morality all they want but when push comes to shove we’re all in it for ourselves. How else do atheists explain consistently doing those things they know to be bad for the collective - lying to themselves and others being just one small example?
ReplyDeleteIrony so thick you could cut it with a dull butter knife...
Oh brother...
ReplyDelete(Part 1)
Here we go again. Let's start at the top.
BEWARE THE END IS NEAR.... like usual
. We are so corrupt that marriages, rather than being healed and restored are simply given up on lest “one of the parents be killed.” That's what one atheist said is the alternative to divorce - murder.
You clearly missed the point Gandalf was making. Nobody encourages anybody to divorce because it's "applauded". He was making the point that some people find over time that they're not really compatible or "meant" for each other and it's really best for the couple to dissolve the marriage. NOW, was it a mistake to get too hastily married in the first place? Sure, but we all make mistakes. It does not mean you can't have a meaningful and long lasting marriage the second time around. Are divorce rates higher nowadays? Sure, but how many countless couples in a more "noble" age, stuck through the whole marriage, unhappy till the bitter end just because it was taboo to divorce? How simple of you to not be able to understand that. You may find this surprising, but usually after people divorce they don't turn into zombies and start eating people, you can relax. Our society has its problems, this is not one you should lose sleep over. And you were a councilor? Consider me a "counselor" as well, if you qualify.
. We are so corrupt that the child porn business is a multi BILLION dollar a year business
I have a couple issues with this. First off, this has absolutely nothing to do with atheists. It has nothing to do with "turning away from god", being that religious officials obviously have no problems having sex with children, let alone masturbating to Internet pics, which is where all the money is from.
On the bright side things have gotten a little better on this issue lately...
-- The monthly price of a child-porn subscription has jumped from $20 to hundreds or thousands of dollars.
-- The number of unique websites containing commercial child porn has declined by 50 percent (a unique website may move to a different URL).
-- Child-porn producers have added extra steps to the purchasing process, making it more anonymous and cumbersome.
This of course doesn't make it okay, but I thought I'd share some hopeful news on this issue. This is from the Financial Coalition Against Child Pornography.
NOW, it's unfortunate that this is an issue at all, but how do you know, given the capability, that child pornography would not have been just as bad if not worse, in a time before the Internet? Child porn is rampant because it's accessible, not fashionable. It's not "applauded", as you mistakenly say. We don't sit around swapping child porn stories when we get together, THAT'S NOT NORMAL. My mother and ALL her sisters were molested by their father, no Internet required. This was during a more "noble" time.
(part 2)
ReplyDeleteHOLY CRAP
. We are so corrupt that addictions (you know them better as diversions, distractions, dependencies) like eating, relationships, work, cleaning, fitness, busy - ness (Carl Jung said, “Busyness is not of the devil, busyness IS the devil) and more are signs of how emotionally twisted we are. The more we reject God the more we depend on “things” like eating, relationships, work, cleaning, fitness, busy - ness including mood altering drugs to make us forget.
Emotionally twisted? What, like believing that a designer would create a portion of the human race for the sole purpose of BURNING ALIVE FOR ALL ETERNITY? Or maybe like being so homophobic that you actually have services to "convert" them from their sexuality to release the devil from them. LOL!!! nice one Christians. Or maybe emotionally twisted like teaching children that their corrupt RIGHT FROM THE GET GO. Teaching them that their worthless unless they beg god to forgive them of the sins they haven't yet committed. Emotionally twisted like that?
like eating, relationships, work, cleaning, fitness, busy - ness,
You get a point for eating, we've gotten pretty bad with that. That is a modern thing. Though, that has nothing to do with "turning away from god". That has to do with accessibility of fast food, and that does indeed play on human weakness. However it must be noted that Christians are fat too.
UH OH! How many lives are ruined each year from the satanic ritual of CLEANING? Are you serious, cleaning? I'm sure there are lots of people that are too obsessed with cleaning, but this is hardly the downfall of mankind, mak. I mean, if we can be so sensitive to list all our flaws, why leave anything out when you can mention cleaning. Why not mention how we like fast cars? that's a larger problem I would think. Oh I know, how about our "obsession" with tending to our gardens? Or our despicable urge to give our pets immunizations, how horrid!
relationships...like with god? An overabundant relationship with god tends to be bad as well. Have you met a radical Christian? You know, those people with intimate relationships with god that go and shoot a doctor in the face for performing abortions. Good times.
work Why not laziness? You say work, but you could say we don't work enough either? By what basis would you compare our work ethics with those of another time?
fitness, or was it eating? Which would you prefer mak? If they're not eating too much, they must be TOO INTO FITNESS. Oh boy. Why don't you just come out and say what you really want to say. We should devote our days and nights apologizing for our flaws, groveling at the feet of a designer who intentionally designed us flawed. Perhaps your "addiction" is being worried about evil atheist nazis coming for your children.
(part 3)
ReplyDeleteThou shalt not operate faculties of reasoning and honesty during biblical analysis.
Only 50 years ago people were genuinely shocked to find corruption in a businessman or government official. Now we expect it. Trust is at an all time low and for good reason. Corruption is back by popular demand and it’s here to stay.
And by whom was the corruption? Atheists?
Let's turn back the pages of history a little. Who was it 50 years ago that shocked the nation with corruption? Nixon? He was a quaker. Which atheist president do you refer to? In god we trust! right? We shouldn't be so quick to claim that corruption did not exist in older days. But it's tough to lie nowadays in the information age. As soon as somebody tells a fabrication, we got 50 tabs of YouTube open with video of the guy saying something completely different. That's one of the great things about this time. But notice that NO politician campaigns on corruption. How many presidential candidates had the slogan "I'll corrupt the shit out of your country... for the people!" Please, don't be so naive.
But Corporate corruption? Hell yes that's a problem. I have no argument there. But who is it that fails to regulate this corruption time and time again? It's the secular populous that stands up again and again protesting this, but Christian presidents have a problem with biting the hand that feeds them. Well, that is a bit unfair, given we haven't yet had an atheist president, I'll admit. Maybe we'll get lucky someday :)
But we know conservatism is synonymous with Christianity most of the time, and it's conservatives who are SOOOO pro non-regulation.
(part 4)
ReplyDeleteBeware of the 1.6% majority!!
Of course, atheists don’t call it corruption. They call it creative honesty or honesty that’s relative to the situation. How did we get to this situation? All society needed was for enough people to move away from God and an objective moral standard, enough people to reach a critical mass of moral relativity and corruption was given the green light. Anyone remember, “Look out for #1"? That’s what British Petroleum was doing in the Gulf of Mexico. Looking out for their own interests. It's what's expected. It's the norm.
Enough people to move away from God? The united states has more Christians than ANY OTHER COUNTRY OF THE WORLD. We should observe the least amount of corruption (as defined by you) in this country if we go by your recipe for doom. (My country rather, I know your in Canada) By the way...
JUST BECAUSE A COUNTRY IS CLOSE TO GOD, DOES NOT MAKE IT A "GOOD" COUNTRY. Allow me to paste something I wrote in a debate with "JD", to give you an example of what I mean...
THOU SHALT NOT KILL...
Top nations ranked by murder per capita/Predominant Religion of the Country
1.Columbia 0.617847 per 1,000 people/95% of the population is Christian
2.South Africa 0.496008 per 1,000 people/79.75 of the population is Christian
3.Jamaica 0.324196 per 1,000 people/59%of the population is Christian
4.Venezuela 0.316138 per 1,000 people/92% of the population is Roman Catholic
5.Russia 0.201534 per 1,000 people/63% of the population is Russian Orthodox
THOU SHALT NOT STEAL...
Top nations ranked by Total Crimes per capita/Predominant Religion of the Country
1.Dominica 113.822 per 1,000 people/77% of the population is Roman Catholic
2.New Zealand 105.881 per 1,000 people/56% of the population is Christian
3.Finland 101.526 per 1,000 people/79.7 of the population is Evangelical Lutheran
4.Denmark 92.8277 per 1,000 people/81.5% of the population is Lutheran
5.Chile 88.226 per 1,000 people/70% of the population is Roman Catholic
THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
Top nations ranked by Rapes per capita/Predominant Religion of the Country
1.South Africa 1.19538 per 1,000 people/79.75% of the population is Christian
2.Seychelles 0.788294 per 1,000 people/82% of the population is Roman Catholic
3.Australia 0.777999 per 1,000 people/64% of the population is Christian
4.Montserrat 0.749384 per 1,000 people/?% majority Anglican
5.Canada 0.733089 per 1,000 people/77% of the population is Christian
(part 5)
ReplyDeleteGod put atheist on this planet to prove to his work buddies that humans burn easily.
A person has to be pretty naive to not see that the exponential increase in corruption at all levels of government and business has been a direct result of the “create your own morality” movement of which atheists are active members. Remember, atheists? Honesty is relative to the situation? Remember, how hard you guys worked just a couple posts ago to find situations where honesty wasn’t the best option? Well, you aren’t alone. Everyone on the planet including members of government and heads of corporations play that game.
As opposed to morality imposed by God, like say... sharia law? Being that Christians cannot seem to uniformly practice or agree on the morals they so adamantly exclaim are objective, we have no choice but to assume that their morals are just as man-made as the atheists. You rant on and on about how god's morals are objective, yet there is not objective way to observe this as fact. We should see statistics stimulated by this holy influence and yet guess what? yep.
(part 6)
ReplyDeleteMy personal experience with God is proof that your personal experience with another god is not proof.
A person has to be pretty naive to not see that the exponential increase in corruption at all levels of government and business has been a direct result of the “create your own morality” movement of which atheists are active members. Remember, atheists? Honesty is relative to the situation? Remember, how hard you guys worked just a couple posts ago to find situations where honesty wasn’t the best option? Well, you aren’t alone. Everyone on the planet including members of government and heads of corporations play that game.
Really? How corrupt do you think the major corporations were in the year 20AD? yeah. Again, it's hard for me to disagree with big business practices. And it certainly is being fueled by the flaw of human greed, which is why we need to "make up" morals (regulations) that apply to business. This has nothing to do with religion. If so, we would know that religious people are immune to this kind of behavior. They're not. After all, how can 1.6% be responsible for the moral tide of business?
400,000,000 (that's million!) children live each day without access to clean drinking water. It would take a one time infusion of about 14 billion dollars to remedy that situation. How could we ever afford that? Right? Can't do it.
While this is a tragedy, in 2008 Americans gave $307.65 Billion dollars to charity. Perhaps the issue is allocation of funds, because we could have easily taken 14 billion of that money and give it to such a cause.
Though, I admit, I would like to see even more, given the amount of money we do indeed spend on Christmas presents. But we'll get to that in the next post right now.
Testing 1,2,3, it's not letting me post my next part...
ReplyDeleteI'm getting error bX-47qz89 when trying to post... However it might let me post this. I've tried shaving down the comment to a much smaller size, but that's not helping. dont understand
ReplyDeleteI'm going to reply to the money spending part of the post. The money allocation from north americans but it wont let me paste anything so I'm going to do it differently for the sake of posting..
ReplyDeletePart 7A
I think it's important to put certain things in to context. I can agree that we over consume. However consumption from a Christian perspective should not be bad, considering the earth is a temporary abode. Who cares what happens to it, Jesus is coming back. And as far as thirsty children, I must agree that we could spend a lot less on certain things. We do buy a lot of crap. As much as I disagree with you on things, I do agree that we overdo it when it comes to this. However I do think its important to remember that accessibility to such luxuries was not possible before. We're simply exploiting the human flaw we've always had. This has nothing to do with "turning away from god", as we know that the god fearing populous is capable of ANYTHING. With religion we can convince ourselves that anything is permissible. Maybe that's not how YOU worship, but not everybody worships as you do. I know you can agree with that.
Part 7B
ReplyDeleteNOW THE IMPORTANT PART
There are a lot of people that do indeed magnanimously donate lots and lots of money to charity each year. We shouldn't dilute their generosity. Because when you run the numbers we actually spend more money donating to charity than we spend on; making our lawns and gardens greener, (including gnomes and bird baths), salty snacks, chocolate, anti-aging creams, mother’s day flowers and gifts, pornography, lottery tickets, and illegal gambling COMBINED!!
Testing 1,2,3, it's not letting me post my next part...
ReplyDeleteTime for you to have your own blog then. You post more than Rod himself ;)
Interesting points by the way, but I feel like his views are way too simple for your analysis. He's basically putting anything "bad" as godless/atheistic and anything "good" as divinely inspired. Of course what's "good" or "bad" is entirely up to him and only him, but he's such a good Christian you know... he must be right!!
Too bad he won't give a shit and/or misrepresent what you said in a response, as usual...
(part 8)
ReplyDelete...sigh
Atheists can preach collective morality all they want but when push comes to shove we’re all in it for ourselves. How else do atheists explain consistently doing those things they know to be bad for the collective - lying to themselves and others being just one small example?
Theists can preach God's bestowed objective morality all they want but when push comes to shove we're all in it for ourselves. How else do theists explain consistently doing those things they know to be objectively bad - lying to themselves and others being just one small example?
@Hugo,
ReplyDeleteTrue, I shouldn't waste my entire afternoon responding so extensively to someone who won't process any of it anyway. Well, too late now, I'm done, but oh well. It's just that it's upsetting when someone pushes such a distorted view on atheism. The man has flipped his lid.
The man has flipped his lid
ReplyDeleteI disagree, 'snackbar. I think Thesauros posts what he does for several sane reasons:
1) he wants to piss off his readers
2) he wants to feel more sure of his own faith, and thus he demonizes anything that makes him question it.
3) he doesn't like to admit that he's wrong.
4) he envies those he feels are more intelligent than he is
Simply put, Mak's immature. He certainly can't be the kind of Christian he claims he is, as he'd be too scared to lie.
@atheistsnackbar
ReplyDeleteI shouldn't waste my entire afternoon responding so extensively to someone who won't process any of it anyway.
It's not necessarily a waste of time, as I think personally that it's always interesting to take the time to analyze another person's position, and writing on it makes it less superficial.
At the same time, as WEM just pointed out, Thesauros might be trying to piss off Atheists on purpose, which would mean that writing long comments on his blog is pleasing is ego.
Plus I think Thesauros did mention that intelligence is over-rated or something like that, so WEM is probably right when saying that 'he envies those he feels are more intelligent than he is', and Thesauros will not try to engage such people with the genuine intention of discussing, by fear of proving them right, or himself wrong... which he already does by constantly lying, but that's just obvious by now!
@WEM
Simply put, Mak's immature. He certainly can't be the kind of Christian he claims he is, as he'd be too scared to lie.
I think you convinced me that he must be playing a game, at least in part, especially because of the point you just mentioned!
@WEM
ReplyDelete1) he wants to piss off his readers
2) he wants to feel more sure of his own faith, and thus he demonizes anything that makes him question it.
3) he doesn't like to admit that he's wrong.
4) he envies those he feels are more intelligent than he is
It would be difficult to argue with those that, I accept those points.
@Hugo
At the same time, as WEM just pointed out, Thesauros might be trying to piss off Atheists on purpose, which would mean that writing long comments on his blog is pleasing is ego.
I can accept that as well, good point.
atheistsnackbar said... "You clearly missed the point Gandalf was making. Nobody encourages anybody to divorce because it's "applauded". He was making the point that some people find over time that they're not really compatible or "meant" for each other and it's really best for the couple to dissolve the marriage"
ReplyDeleteThanks Snackbar.Yes exactly.Its not that i applaude devorce,infact i do the very opposite i applaude marriages that last a life time.
In old times when religion ruled the roost.The attitude of extreme hatered and violence was often passed on to children via their parents relationship entrapments.Aided by the fact, there was absolutely no way out of a septic and often violent marriage. Bolstered by the very fact due to this ,a women was most often becoming basically thought of as a mere possession, once marriage had taken place.This is what faith brought to our societys,a type of ownership by entrapment within marriage.
Mak violence is become rampent and widespread within our society, in big part due to this very fact!.We cannot have expected human beings to have learned love and a caring considderate natures,if so many relationships all around them sit only the grounds of ownership and rigid rules about who`s got the right to make claim to being the boss.A faith marriage where no way out is allowable, is just an idea of blatant entrapment an idea thought up by nasty ignorant ancient religious men!looking to find another way of control,they could then use their pysical strength to overpower and abuse.And there was no way out!...Thus there was absolutely no need!! for any promotion of love! and understanding! and a caring and kind attitude!, to be taught and cherished amongst families and so the communititys as well either.
No reason at all.Faith rule was rule,and rule was not about love or a matter of learning understanding,no it was about who has rights! and ownership! to claim! being the boss.
Faith marriages help in promoting much of the violent thoughtless nasty ignorant unkind attitude that sadly still happen to scurge of societies like a cancer today Mak.
Like anything, once it become ingrained in society, it then also becomes a very hard problem to change.
Its all so very fine for you sitting there Mak pointing out the bad bits you see and trying to pin it on non believing folk....But you need to do some deeper thinking while remembering to be honest and just, here my friend..Because we have! lived in a world that came from a time of religious rule!...A time when faith was the overbearing power! and faith was the most prevalent role model!.
How do you suppose non believers can be blamed when its been faith rule "role model" that has shaped so much of our past?.
Do you also sit there and blame your kids, for that what you happened to become Mak?.When you find they are now often a violent unruly uncaring bunch, do you just sit there saying boo hoo, now look what you did to my perfection!.... Mak?.
I this how your Jesus friend would react Mak ?.Is this his justice you teach ?
Mak is angry about porn and sexual abuse of porn of children?? ...He wishes to pin the blame on no believers of today??
ReplyDeleteMak Mak Mak.
Just how do you put your concience aside,and find it so easy to turn a blind eye to the fact!!, that it was actually the "faiths" in out past history! that allowed! "young women" to even be legally taken as wives ??.
And now you would like to lay judgment and conviction, on the non believers?, for the existence of adults with a untasteful act of those who sexually prey on the youth?.
Is this what your friend Jesus sense of fair and "honest judgment" would also be like?.
If so ...Then no wonder they nailed him on the cross
Whateverman said... "Atheists can preach collective morality all they want but when push comes to shove we’re all in it for ourselves. How else do atheists explain consistently doing those things they know to be bad for the collective - lying to themselves and others being just one small example?
ReplyDeleteIrony so thick you could cut it with a dull butter knife... "
Yeah ...Wonder when the man Mak, will realize the escapism of "faiths" havent really changed the fact we need to first honestly face our humanity ,before we will even start to be able to make some honest changes.
Believing in a sky daddy wont magically change us.
We need to face the fact WE ARE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE to make change.
Mak wears out the carpet by his bed praying each and every day ...But does that help him with honesty of judgment?.
No....He`s still flat out busy blaming everyone else but himself.
The irony is thick ...So very true
Whateverman said.."Simply put, Mak's immature. He certainly can't be the kind of Christian he claims he is, as he'd be too scared to lie."
ReplyDeleteMak is just a type of extention, of the Pope who could so easily turn a blind eye and keep moving molesting priests onward to then get to continue their abuse elsewhere.
Mak is just a type extention of a Russian doomsday cult, who saw nothing wrong with even putting their own children in very grave danger of possible death!,when taking them to live out in the snow in winter,with no proper toilets or ways to keep clean.
Mak is just a type of extention of my own abusive cult family who turn a blind eye to the fact their faith beliefs have causes much sadness and harm that even now includes quite a large number of SUICIDES.
With all these instances we see a pattern emerging that ALL faith includes a type doctrine of escapism ...A way to blind the believer into not ever allowing the self to be honestly also looking within