Someone compared Joseph Smith taking one for the team to Jesus' followers maintaining their convictions to the bitter end.
All of them.
Every single one.
Quite a difference compared to the fact that seven of Mr. Smith's closest followers recanted and named the fraud for what it was.
Can you imagine what would have happened to Christianity if seven of the disciples had said, "We made it all up. None of us ever saw Jesus alive again after His crucifixion."
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Well, the religion in question is still around and kicking. Admissions of fraudulence don't seem to have impacted Mormonism too much...
ReplyDeleteMakes you wonder what it actually would take to convince people that a religion isn't worthy of their faith...
Lol, ur right WEM, isn't this post also a proof that people do die for a lie they know is a lie?
ReplyDeleteThank you Rod for providing a better example than I could ever have come up with to support one of the things I wrote in the last long comment...
"Makes you wonder what it actually would take to convince people that a religion isn't worthy of their faith..."
ReplyDeleteUnless you’re an atheist simply to be fashionable, you know the answer to that. In the case of Mormons, every single historical claim they make is unsubstantiated. It’s been my experience (we have Mormons in our family) that most Mormons are ignorant of what their Church teaches. Most people, I believe, join the Church because of its strong pro family stance.
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“isn't this post also a proof that people do die for a lie they know is a lie?”
I said, “Liars make poor martyrs,” or something to that effect. While most martyrs are someone who has believed SOMEONE ELSE'S lie, with seven billion people, I’m sure that there will be more than just Joseph Smith who has lied and maintained that lie to the death.
That is not the same as what took place surrounding the rise of Christianity. To not have even one of Jesus' followers cave to the pressure is, I think, significant. You don’t. So be it. Life goes on.
To not have even one of Jesus' followers cave to the pressure...
ReplyDeleteHow can you tell? It could be the case that Jesus himself did everything with the help of people that were hidden behind the scene... anyway, it's ridiculous to put it that way because I still think that, assuming it is true, yes, it is significant... I agree.
In other words, if I had to rank religions I would put reveled religions like Islam and Mormonism as more ridiculous than Christianity, for sure. It makes more sense to follow a guy that made such a great impression on his followers that they were willing to die for him, rather than following someone who just wrote a self-proclaimed divine book... but that might be because I have a bias toward Christianity, I don't know much about other religions.
I wrote "Makes you wonder what it actually would take to convince people that a religion isn't worthy of their faith..."
ReplyDeleteThesauros replied: Unless you’re an atheist simply to be fashionable, you know the answer to that.
Quite honestly, I don't know what you mean. It seems to me that there are people who are absolutely not convinced that should abandon their faith if something they believe is shown to be a lie. This isn't a statement about all religions or all theists - I simply don't know what it takes to convince someone that their religious faith is misplaced.
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Thesauros wrote the following: Most people, I believe, join the Church because of its strong pro family stance.
I agree with this; family values and a strong sense of community. Nearly all of the Mormons I've met have been nice and willing to discuss anything/everything. Beyond that, the specific beliefs in Mormonism seem pretty crazy to me.
You know that people don't actually have to have been martyred to be martyrs right?
ReplyDeleteThe majority of the martyrdom stories were invented in the middle ages.
In a thousand years there may be stories that the Mormon Witnesses WERE martyred.
Yeah, except that not all of Jesus' followers stuck with him. I'm not just talking about Judas Iscariot either. Lots of his disciples ditched him.
ReplyDeleteOther than that, whatever.
Seth the people who abondoned Joseph Smith did so because, as they admitted, he was perpetrating a fraud.
ReplyDeleteThe people who abandoned Jesus, did so because of the level of commitment He demanded from them.
"Do not sign on with Me until you have first counted the cost."
In fact, if you follow the rise and fall of Jesus' popularity, you'll see that as the time of His crucifixion approached, Jesus seemed to purposely drive away people instead of trying to attract them to the cause.
In a thousand years there may be stories that the Mormon Witnesses WERE martyred.
ReplyDelete