It is in fact metaphysically possible that a Greatest Conceivable Being exists.
. Because it’s possible that a Greatest Conceivable Being exists, a Greatest Conceivable Being does exist in some possible reality. (remember the atheist's multiverse where anything that can happen does happen?).
. Because of the very nature of a Greatest Conceivable Being, if a Greatest Conceivable Being exists in some possible reality, it exists in every possible reality.
. If a Greatest Conceivable Being exists in every possible reality, then it exists in actual reality.
. If a Greatest Conceivable Being exists in actual reality, then a Greatest Conceivable Being exists in our reality.
Because the above premises are true and coherent, it stands to reason that the conclusion is also true: A Greatest Conceivable Being or God exists.
Sounds fanciful. Doesn't it? Richard Dawkins calls the Ontological Argument for God's existence “infantile,” but he fails to point out the problem in its logic. He seems to think that if something sounds too simple, them it must be too simple. Dawkin's problem is, the argument is logically sound. “It breaches no laws of logic, commits no confusions and is entirely immune to Kant's criticism.” Perhaps Dawkins just doesn't understand modal logic. Let me try to flesh it out a bit.
On Modal Logic we can deal with what must be the case, what might be the case, and what could not possibly be the case. This is in contrast with ordinary logic of what is and what is not.
A Greatest Conceivable Being is one whose greatness is infinite (omni everything) in every possible world. This Being is not contingent in any possible world. This Being exists necessarily in every possible world.
Here is where Dawkins and his ilk dig their own grave. Dawkins, the Prima donna that he is says that God is as likely to exist as real fairies living at the bottom of his garden.
Mistake.
For Dawkins to NOT categorically deny the existence of real fairies in this world, is saying that in some possible world, real fairies do exist (again the atheist's multiverse where anything that can happen, does happen). To say that the existence of real fairies is as likely as the existence of Creator God, is to admit that in some possible world God does exist. But God is not like a fairy. God is the Greatest Conceivable Being, His existence is necessary and if He exists in some possible world He must exist in EVERY possible world including the actual world. This means that if it is even possible that God exists, then it is necessary that He does exist.
Mistake.
For Dawkins to NOT categorically deny the existence of real fairies in this world, is saying that in some possible world, real fairies do exist (again the atheist's multiverse where anything that can happen, does happen). To say that the existence of real fairies is as likely as the existence of Creator God, is to admit that in some possible world God does exist. But God is not like a fairy. God is the Greatest Conceivable Being, His existence is necessary and if He exists in some possible world He must exist in EVERY possible world including the actual world. This means that if it is even possible that God exists, then it is necessary that He does exist.
One of the greatest thinkers ever, Leibniz, could see plainly that either the universe is necessary (it can't NOT exist) or the Cause of the universe is necessary. Either matter is eternal (and we now know that it can't be) or the Cause of matter is eternal.
By itself of course the ontological argument is just a mixing of words and thoughts. Combine this argument with the fact that our contingent universe does exist, a universe that demands an explanation for its existence from a necessary Cause and the argument takes on extraordinary importance.
The characteristics of a Greatest Conceivable Being match perfectly what we know of Creator God.
. If this Being exists anywhere It exists everywhere.
. If It exists in any possible reality It exists in every possible reality (even in the atheist's multiverse).
. If It exists at any point in history, It exists at every point in history.
. If He is Lord of any kingdom He is Lord of every kingdom.
. If He ever lived He lives for eternity.
Now some might point out that this argument could also say that a Greatest Conceivable Being does not exist. We could use the same points to make the case. That's true. However the ontological argument does not stand in isolation of one very important fact. Our universe exists. Our universe could not have had a natural, material cause because nothing natural or material existed until the universe was brought into being.
Only someone utterly committed to a material world-view would refuse to take this argument seriously.
We're off to the lake. See you Monday.
We're off to the lake. See you Monday.
Because the above premises are true and coherent, it stands to reason that the conclusion is also true: A Greatest Conceivable Being or God exists.
ReplyDeleteThe premises are not true and coherent...
It is in fact metaphysically possible that a Greatest Conceivable Being exists.
It is in fact metaphysically possible that exists.
can be anything you want. Pointless premise.
The argument is dead already.
Because it’s possible that a Greatest Conceivable Being exists, a Greatest Conceivable Being does exist in some possible reality.
This means that if something can possibly exists, then it does exists somewhere? That's how I understand it... If I am right, this premise is also false and sufficient to kill the argument by itself.
(remember the atheist's multiverse where anything that can happen does happen?).
This seems to confirm the above understanding, and that's wrong. Stating that anything 'can' happen does not mean that anything 'does' happen. Law of identify violated. The argument fails again.
Because of the very nature of a Greatest Conceivable Being, if a Greatest Conceivable Being exists in some possible reality, it exists in every possible reality.
Defining something as 'if it exists somewhere, it exists everywhere' does not prove anything because, again, anything can be defined as such.
Ok enough... you probably already think in your head that I am sooooo illogical.
errrr
ReplyDeleteIt is in fact metaphysically possible that exists.
can be anything you want. Pointless premise.
The argument is dead already.
was...
It is in fact metaphysically possible that (something) exists.
(something) can be anything you want. Pointless premise.
The argument is dead already.
Dearest Hugo – Using arguments to refute Anselm's theory do not apply to Plantinga's modal logic.
ReplyDeleteDearest Hugo
ReplyDeleteIt's funny how you certainly mean this in a very condescing way, as in, awwww my dear Hugo, you're so young, if you only knew.... awwwww.... let me tell you these wise words, from someone who has seen many moons and know that he's talking about.
Jesus would not be proud of you Rod.
Using arguments to refute Anselm's theory do not apply to Plantinga's modal logic.
You keep amazing me...
First, classical logic, the only one ever used in rational discussions, is not anyone's theory. Either you use logic or not. Either you have a logical ontology to present or you don't. Yours fail; your argument failed; deal with it.
Second, Ontological arguments for the existence of God ALL fail for the same reason: they re-define what existence mean in order to include things that cannot be proven to exist. In your example, it is expressed like this:
1) It is in fact metaphysically possible that a Greatest Conceivable Being exists
('Greatest Conceivable Being' POSSIBLY exists)
2) ... a Greatest Conceivable Being does exist in some possible reality.
('Greatest Conceivable Being' POSSIBLY exists
rephrased as:
'Greatest Conceivable Being' exists in a POSSIBLE reality)
3) ... if a Greatest Conceivable Being exists in some possible reality, it exists in every possible reality.
In other words, if God possibly exists, then it exists, everywhere, because that's what God is, something that is everywhere.
The mere possibility of God existing is used as a reason to conclude that he necessarly exists, because God exists everywhere.., IF it exists.
Want another way to see it?
- IF 'Greatest Conceivable Being POSSIBLY exists' THEN 'Greatest Conceivable Being exists in ALL reality'
- IT IS THE CASE THAT 'Greatest Conceivable Being POSSIBLY exists'
- THEREFORE 'Greatest Conceivable Being exists in ALL reality'
CONCLUSION: The argument is invalid because it says that IF A THEN B, where A is only 'possible' and B is the exact same thing as 'A' but, not just possible, proven true. Therefore, it is fallacious, i.e FALSE.
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Awwww dearest Hugo, don't try to explain me logic. I am too old for that. On apprend pas à un vieux singe à faire la grimace.