I’d said on a post a couple days ago that “God cannot contradict His own character.” Some atheist jumped all over that with, “Oh really! Are there other things that God can’t do? I thought He was all powerful. I guess not.”
That’s what these people are like. It’s how they think.
Atheists ask, “Could God create a rock so heavy that He couldn’t lift it?” and they believe - they REALLY BELIEVE - that makes them sound clever. It’s kind of like when they ask, “Oh ya! Well when did eternal God begin to exist? Huh? Huh? Who created this eternal God of yours? Huh?” Again, these type of questions are asked with an air of, “I’m a Bright and you’re not!”
In their ignorance of all things theological, atheists have assumed that if God exists, and if He’s Omnipotent then He can do anything. Sorry, no. The Omnipotence of God does not imply that He can do anything.
The Omnipotence of God DOES mean that He can do anything that can be done.
Apart from the fact that God created the entire physical Universe out of nothing, even though He is Immaterial / Spirit and transcendent to the Universe, the questions that atheists ask in this regard are conceptual absurdities. Other examples of this type of question are,
“Can God create a round square?” Or,
“Can God create a four-sided triangle?”
No, He can’t - but not because He's isn't Omnipotent.
The reason that God cannot do these things is because,
“These kinds of things cannot be done - PERIOD!”
God IS infinite in power, but power only relates to what can be done, NOT to what is impossible! It is absurd to say that any power, even infinite power should be able to do what can’t be done. It should not surprise us when these kind of people ask these kind of questions because these kind of people adhere to a belief system that is itself absurd, illogical and incoherent.
While God can do whatever is possible to be done, in reality, He will do only what does not contradict His character. (Yesterday I’d used the term “contradict His nature,” and an atheist said, “Oh so you’re saying that God is natural therefore matter HAS always existed.” Again with atheist thinking).
What I meant when I said that God cannot contradict His own character is:
A Being who IS Love and who IS Just cannot act in a non loving or unjust manner.
A Being who is the epitome of honesty cannot lie.
God who is the very definition of Love, cannot create beings with the ability to express this type of real love without also giving them the freewill choice to NOT love.
Atheists say this shows that God is not all powerful. They are, once again, wrong. With only a small amount of consideration the average person can see that:
. There are many things that are possible, that you and I cannot do.
. There aren’t ANY things that are possible, that God CAN’T do.
That’s what being Omnipotent means.
Atheists will probably NEVER be able to grasp that concept.
They get insulted when I say that it’s because they’re dull of mind and slow of thought but what other reason is there? I suppose philosophically bigoted would fit.
The fact is, to say that God is lacking in power just because He cannot make a 90-year-old teenager is to imply that He COULD do so if He simply had more power.
That’s what these people are like. It’s how they think.
Making a house that is larger on the inside than it is on the outside, or making an animal that is at the same time both white all over and black all over - to propose such things is to support logical contradictions and absurdities. Since these kinds of questions come from people who adhere to a belief system that is itself illogical, incoherent and absurd, this should not surprise.
Just as atheists hold conferences where they actually debate which holds the greater truth:
We don’t believe in God or
We’re non believers in God,
these people sit around imagining logical absurdities that cannot be accomplished AND THEN, based on the conclusion they reach, atheists say that God does not possess infinite power or that God does not exist.
Omnipotence does not mean that there are no limits to what an omnipotent Being can do. There several things that God cannot do, the most important of which affects atheists in a dramatic eternal manner.
God cannot be tempted by evil.
God cannot show partiality or favouritism
God cannot forgive the individual who will not repent of h/ her sin.
. It is profoundly important to understand that you may live in such a manner that even Creator God cannot save your soul.
. It is profoundly important that you not put yourself in a position from which even Creator God cannot rescue you.
There are some things even God can’t change
Heaven or Hell - The Choice Is Yours To Make
“I take no delight in the death of the wicked. So turn from your sin and live.”
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That was quite a long post just for saying:
ReplyDeleteGod is omniscient and logically non-contradictory.
Theoretically, that makes sense; just prove it's more than an idea now... how do you know that this god you described is not only conceptual but actually real? What evidence do you have?
Can God create a world where all are happy and content? If so, what's the deal with our world? If not, what's the deal with heaven?
ReplyDeletethe writing on the wall...
ReplyDeleteyou have FORFEIT your lives...
for the idiot called *
f*ck you very much!
Atheists!!!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg
see, you degenerates have last names like first names...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
how about I believe in WHATEVER I want - even in the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER! - and you have nothing to say!
let me show you the end results of this particular *ONE-DIMENSIONAL SCIENTIFIC MODE*
of thinking that is called *CRITICAL THINKING*, which is completely divorced from
any human objectives...
this style has been perfected by dawkins, pz, randi and the other *NEW ATHEISTS*
**
THE BOOBQUAKE - 911!
see how we take a term and convert it into its AUTHENTIC POLITICAL DIMENSION - THAT
OF LIBERATION - not just merely harmless expression...
visit
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/philosophy-f1/the-boobquake-911-t1310.htm
He Can
ReplyDeleteHe Will
He Is
You and I are part of the process.
Surely you must realise that any world where there is only happiness and only contentment means that evil must be banished.
Surely you realise that for a world to exist where all are happy and content, those on the side of evil must also be banished.
Surely you realise what you must do to avoid being were there is only evil and no goodness or happiness or contentment.
these little fuckers try to tell us what GOD CAN OR CAN'T DO!!!
ReplyDeleteyou are going to learn that even to TALK about GOD the way you do is going to COST YOU YOUR LIVES...
Mak, your not taking the implications of a designer, to the end of your imagination. Pay attention, let me try this again...
ReplyDeleteTo ask whether or not God could create a boulder so heavy "he" could not lift it, IS NOT WHAT I'M SAYING.
I'm suggesting that the parameters and rules by which our existence is governed, COULD HAVE BEEN TUNED DIFFERENTLY under the "artist's" BOUNDLESS CREATIVITY. Which means, in another universe, we get different reactions under a reality governed by a different algorithm.
The reason we must say that WITHOUT EVIL, WE COULD NOT APPRECIATE LOVE, is because "God" created this action/reaction law. IF GOD COULD NOT CREATE..
UNDERSTANDING/LOVE = PURE LOVE
INSTEAD OF...
CONTRASTING EVIL/LOVE = PURE LOVE
THEN WHAT MUST WE THINK OF THE THEISTIC PREMISE. IT is god's ALGORITHM. Now let's take this further...
If god could not change the algorithm, the action/reaction set of laws, then GOD MUST OPERATE ON A SET OF LAWS BY WHICH "HE" MUST ABIDE! THINK ABOUT THIS.
SO.... If god must operate on Laws "above him", then who designed the rules by which God abides? Who made the canvas and paint God paints with?
If god for example, God MUST create a reality where the non-stimuli of hatred, induces a response of "robotic love" (as you put it), then GOD'S POWER is not infinite. God could have very well created a universe where all that love requires is poetic thought, induced by the vastness of "God's Love", WHILE ALLOWING IT TO MAKE SENCE, in another universe.
An absurdity in this universe is not necessarily an absurdity in another. To question this is to question the architect.
THE REASON THIS IS DIFFERENT than the examples you give, is because the examples you give are simply non-sensical word manipulations. A 90 year old teenager, is wordplay, not reality. Mathematics represent reality, but not every equation or mathematical rule represents reality, only specific equations. Words are no different, ideas are no different. I'M NOT GIVING YOU WORD PLAY, I'm giving you philosophy.
We can, by "God's artwork" reasonably determine the thoughts of the artist. This is what the examination of his work provides. And if we are to critique his artwork, we determine strange conclusions about the artist, conclusions incompatible with the suggestions theists declare.
And DM, your an idiot. Grownups are trying to have a conversation, so go play with your toys.
ReplyDeleteI'm suggesting that the parameters and rules by which our existence is governed, COULD HAVE BEEN TUNED DIFFERENTLY"
ReplyDeleteYou don't know that! And what other universe are you talking about? You're sliding back into a fantasy world again.
If creating a universe where free will and love are both present, and if there was another way to get it that didn't include the death by torture of His Son, you can bet that an alternative would have been chosen. Just because you c . . ach, never mind. Go. Enjoy your life.
AND BY THE WAY...
ReplyDeleteDecision vs Potential decision-analysis, is a good tool for judging character.
We know that under your contention, God DID CREATE REALITY THIS WAY, but COULD HAVE another way. It is by what "he" ACTUALLY DID that allows us to examine the type of Creator "he" may be.
If true love can ONLY be attained by contrasting love against a background, what are we to think of his creation? IN OTHER WORDS, If we can only "SEE" LOVE when we are threatened by "EVIL", this suggest an infidelity of the designer. This tells me that God is merely playing a game. A game that is not for the benefit of "his" artwork, but for the amusement of the artist. An artist who doesn't mind death and rape, because he quite enjoys that sort of thing.
It's all in the artwork. To think that it ABSOLUTELY HAD TO BE GOVERNED THIS WAY to make sense, throws a governing physics over the head of god. God must therefore, have a God to answer to.
Mak, I'm merely examining the implications of infinite power. To back into a corner of "BUT HE DIDN'T DO IT THAT WAY" ignores the philosophy. If you wanna attach the idea of BOUNDLESS POWER to God, you must accept the responsibilities that go with the logic.
ReplyDeleteYou don't know that! And what other universe are you talking about? You're sliding back into a fantasy world again.
ReplyDeleteIf creating a universe where free will and love are both present, and if there was another way to get it that didn't include the death by torture of His Son, you can bet that an alternative would have been chosen
You just said that I don't know whether or not God could not create an alternative universe. Right after that you suggest that YOU DO KNOW. And then you give details about how god could not have created his existence any other way. THEN, ON HIS BEHALF, inform us all that HE WOULD HAVE DONE IT OTHERWISE, if possible. And then you accuse me of slipping into a fantasy world?
If God is restricted to creating ONLY THIS UNIVERSE, did god's God create the rules by which God must abide? Or should we attach the word "god" to rules god must answer to? You pick.
the writing on the wall...
ReplyDeleteyou have FORFEIT your lives...
for the idiot called *
f*ck you very much!
Atheists!!!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg
see, you degenerates have last names like first names...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
how about I believe in WHATEVER I want - even in the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER! - and you have nothing to say!
let me show you the end results of this particular *ONE-DIMENSIONAL SCIENTIFIC MODE*
of thinking that is called *CRITICAL THINKING*, which is completely divorced from
any human objectives...
this style has been perfected by dawkins, pz, randi and the other *NEW ATHEISTS*
**
THE BOOBQUAKE - 911!
see how we take a term and convert it into its AUTHENTIC POLITICAL DIMENSION - THAT
OF LIBERATION - not just merely harmless expression...
visit
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/philosophy-f1/the-boobquake-911-t1310.htm
atheistnackbar
ReplyDeleteyou're DEAD!
you are going to learn that even to TALK about GOD the way you do is going to COST YOU YOUR LIVES...
ReplyDeleteLOL!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteThe jesus mafia says, I'll be swimming with the fishes by noon!
Well guys, looks like I'm going to get the eternal spanking from the sky ;( ...
If DM says it's over, well.. We know how worthy a source he is so, I guess I'm gonna have to kiss all my lives goodbye.
And Mak,
don't give up, this one is fun. Surely you couldn't be togue tied by a mere atheist, slow of thought? Atheists are after all, dull of mind. The problem with you is your unwavering paradigm, tainted by your Christian goggles. You can't even take Christianity out of context to examine analogies and other lines of thought. EVERYTHING you think, must go through the bouncer we call CHRISTIANITY. And consequentially, you have a very specific crowd of thoughts hanging out in the club you call a mind.
If you didn't have this problem, you could see the MULTITUDE OF CONTRADICTIONS you smear with text, onto your blog.
Meanings of omnipotence
ReplyDeleteBetween people of different faiths, or indeed between people of the same faith, the term omnipotent has been used to connote a number of different positions. These positions include, but are not limited to, the following:
1. A deity is able to do anything that is logically possible for it to do.
2. A deity is able to do anything that it chooses to do.
3. A deity is able to do anything that is in accord with its own nature (thus, for instance, if it is a logical consequence of a deity's nature that what it speaks is truth, then it is not able to lie).
4.Hold that it is part of a deity's nature to be consistent and that it would be inconsistent for said deity to go against its own laws unless there was a reason to do so.
5. A deity is able to do anything that corresponds with its omniscience and therefore with its worldplan.
6. A deity is able to do absolutely anything, even the logically impossible.
So Mak is using the first and third version of omnipotence?
God cannot show partiality or favouritism
ReplyDeleteHey Mak, read your Bible! There's a part up the front called the Old Testament.
It's about God's favorite people.
God is continually picking people to favor.
From Noah:
"But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD." Genesis 6:8
Onwards...
How can god exist under the custody of nature? A natural order that god must abide suggests that there are rules that transend god. If this is the case, "who" or "what" must we credit the design of those rules which govern god?
ReplyDeleteYou see, god cannot work under such limiltations. Because then we must naturally question what caused the limitation. Logical nature is a means to navigate a finite reality. Logic navigates under the operation of physical rules. We say...
If "A" is true, and "B" is the reaction of "A", then "C" follows. Where "A", "B", and "C" are all observations contained in a physical universe governed by rules. If "A", "B", and "C" are undefined by an algorithmic process, then they are meaningless. AND since god created the algorithm for our existance, by which otherwise logic could not function, who created the algorith for "his", which "he" must abide?
I really hope you respond to that last one, mak.
ReplyDeleteUnless your too slow of thought to keep up.
Gestation of a Superhero
ReplyDeleteWas Jesus, like Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar, a real historical figure to whom legends and myths became attached? Or, rather, like Huckleberry Finn or Sherlock Holmes a purely fictional character, passed off as a genuine personage or later historicized by other hands?
Perhaps the choice is not quite so clear cut: a person (perhaps several) were certainly in the mind of Mark Twain and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle when they constructed their heroes. Twain drew inspiration from his own life. Doyle modelled much of the character of his detective on his own professor of medicine, a Dr Joseph Bell. Did that make Sherlock Holmes any less of a fiction? (Interestingly, Holmes's trademark “deerstalker” hat is never mentioned in Doyle's stories and the drop-step pipe was the contribution of actor William Gillette years later. That's how myths grow.)
With Jesus, most people feel more comfortable with the 'historical kernel' approach. It is intuitively satisfying to think that someone was behind the towering legend. We do, after all, have Christianity, and it is hard to give credence to the idea that someone "just made-up" Jesus Christ and then managed to convince anyone else to believe that he had lived and died. In fact, one can reach the conclusion that "there must have been a Jesus" without any research at all, which of course is what most people do.
Common Error
And yet, this "common sense" approach, though convenient, is a trap, a misapprehension condoned and encouraged by the priestly cohorts. They are happy to debate and discuss their hero's claims to deity ('a matter of faith') but want us all to accept Jesus of Nazareth as an historical fact. For them, the negation of that "fact" has cataclysmic implications and therefore they resist that possibility with every means within their grasp.
And yet Gods do fall, as the ruins of Upper Egypt and Greece eloquently testify. Was there ever a Horus or an Apollo? It scarcely matters if some shadowy figure was ever consciously in the mind of the original priests who concocted the fables. The Olympian gods ruled for two thousand years and the Egyptian deities for twice that time.
No one "just made-up" Jesus. If we step around the centuries of fabrication and glorification which informs everyone's perception of Jesus Christ and closely examine the two hundred year gestation period of the current Lord and Saviour we can see a perfectly plausible and, indeed, convincing process by which, upon the legacy of earlier times and from piety and scripture alone, the Christian godman emerged into the light. Beliefs created the man; the man did not create the beliefs.
I like what that JesusNeverExisted guy says.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I don't think it matters if Jesus existed or not. I really don't matter saying that Jesus really existed as a real man; it's the supernatural actions that are, by default, un-believable.
So whether Jesus existed or not, it does not matter. A virgin birth and a resurrection are not events that I believe can happen in reality. They are imaginary. A book will never, ever, convince me that it's possible for those to be true. Self-proclaimed eye witnesses will never, ever, convince me either. No exception.
A virgin birth and a resurrection are not events that I believe can happen in reality. They are imaginary. A book will never, ever, convince me that it's possible for those to be true. Self-proclaimed eye witnesses will never, ever, convince me either. No exception.
ReplyDeleteIt's strange, Hugo. With all the debating I've enjoyed over the last 2 decades, your paragraph above is the best I've come across to sum up my feelings so concisely.
Hugo - All you are stating is a spiritual reality.
ReplyDelete"No one can come to Me unless Creator God draws him to Me." John 6:44
No one believes the Bible unless Creator God opens their spiritual eyes.
No one worships Creator God unless He opens their spiritual eyes.
No one stops serving self in order to serve Creator God unless He opens their spiritual eyes.
For every Christian on earth, there was a time when s/he said something like, "I'll never believe that stuff." And then, God changes that person for ever. "It is not by our desire or effort, but on God's mercy." Romans 9:16
My wife became a Christian a couple years before I did. She wrote in her journal at the time, "I don't think Rod will ever come to Christ." At that point, I would have agreed.
It may be true, Hugo, that you are one of the people brought into existence as an object lesson, to show that God is just and right in His judgments. Or you may be granted mercy and one day have your spiritual eyes opened. You simply don't know.
And for what it's worth, if a doctor can make a virgin pregnant, why couldn't the creator of the universe?
As far as the resurrection goes, you and I both know that it's the best explanation to explain the historical events that follow that event.
If God exists, then raising someone supernaturally from the dead is nothing.
Um, are you saying your god chooses who to save and who to damn?
ReplyDeleteNo one believes the Bible unless Creator God opens their spiritual eyes.
No one worships Creator God unless He opens their spiritual eyes.
Well, some say that. There are certainly verses that indicate that's the case. I'm saying that OUR God knows who will and who will not accept His offer of forgiveness.
ReplyDeleteObviously He brings everyone who has and will live into being. It not just those who will accept or not just those who reject.
God knows who will be saved and who will be damned based on His foreknowledge of the choices that people will make. Romans 9:22-24 explains one of the purposes that those who will be damned serve via their existence.
In my main Bible I've written in the margin by these verses, "It could have been me!"
22 How can God show his mighty anger? How can He display his power? That is why He put up with people He hates. They have been made to be destroyed.
ReplyDelete23 What if he did that to show the riches of His glory to others? Those are the people he shows his mercy to. He had prepared them to receive his glory.
24 We are those people. He has chosen us. We do not come only from the Jewish race. Many of us are not Jews.
I gotta say. That is some mighty disgusting verses.
Hugo - All you are stating is a spiritual reality.
ReplyDeleteWhat is that suppose to mean with respect to a virgin birth and resurrection?
I asked you how you can determine that these are not metaphorical, and you basically reply by saying that they are, because "spiritual reality" means "imaginary" to me. So I have to ask again; how do you draw the line? When reading the Bible, why do you consider these literally true, but not Genesis 1 or Noah's Ark story? Wait actually you did mention Noah recently, contrasting him with kids' fairy tales, so I am not sure what you actually believe to be imaginary or not...
Isn't funny, we are back to the exact same question you could not answer when discussing cosmology... where does the real world ends and where does the speculation begins?
[Some biblical stuff]
Always interesting to read, but no reason for me to believe it; it's "just" a book.
(but I do put quotes because I don't consider the Bible to be a regular book of course...)
My wife became a Christian a couple years before I did. She wrote in her journal at the time, "I don't think Rod will ever come to Christ." At that point, I would have agreed.
Yet, you never tell us why. All you wrote about your "atheist" life was how you were living, and that you had never thought about the meaning of life. In other words; you never were a non-believer of Christianity, you had just never looked at it with a careful eye. When you did, you started believing it. I would like to know why, and what were the steps? Or what was the process as you said recently?
Seriously, you should start a series of post on that, because I guess it would require many to explain the conversion you experienced. But eh, it's your blog ;)
It may be true, Hugo, that you are one of the people brought into existence as an object lesson, to show that God is just and right in His judgements. Or you may be granted mercy and one day have your spiritual eyes opened. You simply don't know.
It's interesting how, for you, I am clearly missing something, right? It's a general feeling I have when reading theists talk about atheists; as if we were just humans, while you were Humans+, because you have that spiritual eye and everything that comes with it.
And for what it's worth, if a doctor can make a virgin pregnant, why couldn't the creator of the universe?
lol, because one the two is a magical event?
As far as the resurrection goes, you and I both know that it's the best explanation to explain the historical events that follow that event.
Oh ya of course, Christianity exists, therefore Jesus rose from the dead, makes perfect sense.
May I remind you that other religions exists as well, and are easily traced through history, with precise starting dates as well, much more precise than Christianity in some cases actually...
If God exists, then raising someone supernaturally from the dead is nothing.
Indeed... IF God exists.
"Hugo - All you are stating is a spiritual reality."
ReplyDeleteThe spiritual reality that I was referring to is: "A book will never, ever, convince me that it's possible for those to be true. Self-proclaimed eye witnesses will never, ever, convince me either."
Jesus said, "Even when I rise from the dead, some of you will not believe."
Why Not?
"No one can come to Me unless Creator God draws him to Me." John 6:44
No one believes the Bible unless Creator God opens their spiritual eyes.
No one worships Creator God unless He opens their spiritual eyes.
No one stops serving self in order to serve Creator God unless He opens their spiritual eyes.
For every Christian on earth, there was a time when s/he said something like, "I'll never believe that stuff." And then, God changes that person for ever. "It is not by our desire or effort, but on God's mercy." Romans 9:16
THAT is the spiritual reality I was referring to.
=========
"I am clearly missing something,"
You clearly are missing something. The most important thing ever! I've lived life apart from God and I've lived life as part of His kingdom. In comparison, living apart from Him is third rate - at best. Every born again Christian will tell you the same thing.
A life apart from God CAN be lived of course. I've done it. You're doing it. Billions of people do it all the time. Life goes on.
A time is coming however when you'll have no problem agreeing that a life apart from your Creator is far worse than life in the presence of your Creator.
Oh, and Ben
ReplyDelete"I gotta say. That is some mighty disgusting verses."
You don't have to like reality for it to be reality.
Jesus said, "The one who is not for Me is against Me."
Being your Creator's enemy is one thing. Willfully remaining your Creator's enemy is stupid. The choice is yours.
You clearly are missing something. The most important thing ever! I've lived life apart from God and I've lived life as part of His kingdom. In comparison, living apart from Him is third rate - at best. Every born again Christian will tell you the same thing.
ReplyDeleteThe irony behind this is that you're the ones who are actually missing something; but you are so arrogant and blinded by your faith that you don't care I guess.
A life apart from God CAN be lived of course. I've done it. You're doing it. Billions of people do it all the time. Life goes on.
Yes but again, you don't understand how I think, not at all.
A time is coming however when you'll have no problem agreeing that a life apart from your Creator is far worse than life in the presence of your Creator.
According to your religion that time is going to be after my death, so I am not too worried about that.
Anyway, thanks for finally admitting that you rely on your faith in a Creator God / Jesus and The Bible to believe, and not evidence.
When did that faith kicked in though? I am still curious about that... because I did have a few personal experiences that could be considered religious and I am wondering if you had similar experiences but decided to conclude that they must be the work of a god instead of the work of your brain?
Having one's spiritual eye's opened is not receiving a revelation of something new. It's being allowed to see what was always there. That's what you're missing Hugo. Until God does that for you, you'll go on thinking that "this" is all there is.
ReplyDeleteI'm curious, why do you say that I'm arrogant?