Store up for yourselves treasures in Heaven
where moth and rust cannot destroy and thieves cannot break in and steal

Saturday, May 18, 2013

Does Talking Evidence To Atheists = Time Wasted?

I think it is a waste of time because evidence isn't the atheist's main problem. Their main problem is the presupposition of atheism that they bring to the evidence.

When I find atheists trying to refute science (eg. Laws of causation, life only comes from life, etc.) in order to support their world-view, I know I'm not going to get anywhere talking evidence. When I find atheists changing the definition of words (nothing is actually something, atheism is just a non belief therefore I don't need proof), so as not to conflict with their world-view, I know I'm not going to get anywhere talking evidence.

Atheists bring to the evidence table a world-view presupposition that makes it impossible for them to interpret the evidence properly.

It's a bit like this:
Atheist: Show me the Pacific Ocean.
Christian: I can't
Atheist: Why not?
Christian: Because we're in Montreal. In order for me to show you the Pacific Ocean you'd have to move from your present position.
Atheist: I won't do that. First you show me the Pacific Ocean and then I'll move from my present position.

God says, “Repent and believe and then I will show Myself to you.”

He has not, does not and will not ever move from that condition. You come to Him on His terms. He's given us the universe as enough evidence of His existence. So much evidence of His existence exists that He says, “No one is without excuse for not knowing that a Creator exists.” Even simpletons can interpret the evidence before them; and they can certainly do it better than modern day atheists who begin with the presupposition, “God does not exist, therefore . . . .”

When an atheist brings h/her presupposition (no God – material universe only) to the evidence, it doesn't fit. The evidence says:
. Matter cannot create itself
. Matter cannot preexist itself
. Matter cannot be eternal nor infinite
The evidence does not support a material only universe.

When I bring my presupposition (a Creator of the universe exists outside of time and matter) to the evidence, it does fit. The evidence says:
. Everything material that begins to exist has come into existence because of an external cause.
. Matter is not eternal
. An infinite regress of cause does not exist
. Matter requires an eternal immaterial Creator
Observation, testing and verification support this evidence.

Atheists are simply believing what they believe on blind faith. And in this case, faith would mean, believing something in the teeth of the evidence to the contrary.


  1. What a Gish-gallop!
    "Laws of causation"
    From which you want to make an exemption for your tripod deity - it, you say, has no cause. Well, the atheists make one less assumption when they say that the universe has no cause. Have a look at Occam's razor, Thesauros.

    "Life only comes from life".
    That's 19th century Louis Pasteur against John Needham's version of Aristoteles' "spontaneous creation". And of course he was right. Microbes don't mysteriously appear.
    The formation of life is a process that occurred a few(american)billion years ago under rather unique circumstances, which quite a few scientists are trying to experimentally reconstruct. The account given in Genesis shows clearly that YHV was not involved in that process.
    “No one is without excuse for not knowing that a Creator exists.”
    You sure you didn't overdo it with the negations?
    All in all, my dear apologist, arguing with those complicated questions of cosmogony, abiogenesis et al does not at all make your special idea of god any little bit more evident. Might as well be Brahma, Quetcalcoatl, or a YHV who did not impregnate Maria. Or something you and I can't imagine.
    Filling a vacuum, something about which nothing can be observed, with fantasy is a fine camp fire habit. Nothing to do with reality.

  2. you're really suggesting that someone can just say to themselves "that which I do not believe, for reasons that satisfy me? That thing? I now don't believe it anymore, because of [circle reasoning]" and that's it?

    this site *must* be a poe